Possible Disseminated intravascular coagulation (DIC) in H. orientalis

Hi guys, I have a bit of a story - Friday morning I found that one of my male H. orientalis had died. He had no visible wounds or injuries and other than, you know, lack of life he seemed to have nothing abnormal. I chalked this up to the occasional death we all experience, especially because I "rescue" many of this species from my local classifieds from people who no longer want them. These animals come with no history and so I don't know their ages. I simply guessed (hoped, really) that this was a death due to old age. I did check water parameters - temp is 61F and ammonia, nitrite, nitrate are 0. I have not checked pH, though. They are in a 55 gallon with organic potting soil covered by sand filled with very dense elodea, some water wisteria, and java moss and duck weed. There is no drift wood but they do have a Styrofoam floating island covered in java fern that they can haul out on if they like, and it is sometimes used. I do 5 gallon water changes about every 10 days using aged tap water but I stopped using dechlorinator several months ago as I finally verified that my water company does not add chloramine.

However, yesterday morning I saw a female on the bottom who looked dead also. When I took her out, she was actually alive so I put her on paper towels and decided to wait and see how she did, and I checked water quality again but no changes there. Throughout the day she seemed to get a little more lively but by the evening she was bleeding from her pores. I took no pictures but the blood was not coming from an obvious injury - it was seeping out of her, from her ventral side, around her legs, by her flanks. I took her to my exotic vet this morning but by the time she had got there she had expired. The vet did a cursory exam but freely admitted that amphibians are not her strong point. She did, however, state that she wondered if the newt had Disseminated intravascular coagulation, or DIC. I'm familiar with DIC from my days as a vet tech, and its nasty stuff. The proteins that control blood clotting become overactive, get all used up, and then blood vessels become leaky and patients die from internal bleeding and other issues that happen when your veins leak like a sieve. Sometimes its called "Death is Coming" or "Dead in Cage," because there is very little that can be done to save the patient. Its bad news.

Because I want a diagnosis I elected to have my little newts remains sent off for whole body pathology to, I believe my vet called her Dr. Drewery, though I may have that wrong. It could take as long as 4 weeks to get results, but when I do I can post them if anyone is interested.

Anyway, this is a long post but I do want opinions and thoughts on this - has anyone ever experienced DIC in amphibians before? If so, did you have an idea of what precipitated it? This girl, and the male the day before, seemed healthy and active just the day before their respective demises. This colony of what was 11 has been breeding and seemingly carrying on quite merrily, for newts. I asked the vet today if I should remove all the others and put them in individual plastic cups on damp paper towels until we hear back from the pathologist. She said that would not be her first thought because she did not think the DIC was brought on by anything infectious but to do it if my gut told me to. Would you guys do this?

More history on this colony - I had them all tested for B and D sal in early 2016, right before the infamous ban (along with all my other species). It took a year to get results but all my animals came back negative. However, before I got results I obtained 4 more orientalis - 2 were from a pet shop after the borders were shut down and no more could be imported (yay!) in March 2016, and 2 were from the classifieds in Sept 2016. These four were in their own 10 gallon aquarium and were NOT tested because I got them after I could have the tests run. They were, however, separated in their own 10 gallon until just about 3 weeks ago. When I introduced them they were eating VERY well and behavior seemed normal. They still seem fine and were not among the 2 deaths I just experienced. But I wonder if their introduction to the main tank is involved in anyway.

I guess I am just worried and wanted to mesh things out with other newt people. I worry for the rest of the colony and feel guilty that I may have caused this by bringing home newts with unknown histories, and that I exposed them to something dangerous but preventable. If anyone has any thoughts on this please share! I would also appreciate crossed fingers that the problem goes no further.

Thanks guys.

**Edit - probably doesn't matter but I just did some googling and I bet my little newt is being sent to Dr. Drury R. Reavill at Zoo/Exotic Pathology Service in Carmichael CA.

Sorry to hear about your newts - I hope you have no more problems.

I would say that infectious cause, given the history you've described, would be possible, and I personally would be very strict on hygiene at least until the results come back.

I'd be very interested in the findings. The histopathology should give most information, but a Bd/Bsal/ranavirus PCR screen might be worth considering.

Thank you for your opinion! Yes, I will be very careful with hygiene until I get those results. I even wondered if I should remove the tank from the newt room but thought perhaps I was being too paranoid. I have had no further losses at this point and the remaining 9 seem to be eating well **knock on wood**

I don't know enough about PCR screening so forgive me, but is it still possible in chemically preserved specimens to perform this test? My vet told me that the remains would be placed in formalin or isopropyl alcohol and not on dry ice so I don't know if this can still be done...

Again, thanks for your response. I will post when I learn more.

HJ

jewett said:

Thank you for your opinion! Yes, I will be very careful with hygiene until I get those results. I even wondered if I should remove the tank from the newt room but thought perhaps I was being too paranoid. I have had no further losses at this point and the remaining 9 seem to be eating well **knock on wood**

I don't know enough about PCR screening so forgive me, but is it still possible in chemically preserved specimens to perform this test? My vet told me that the remains would be placed in formalin or isopropyl alcohol and not on dry ice so I don't know if this can still be done...

Again, thanks for your response. I will post when I learn more.

HJ

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Sorry, not sure about the PCR - you'd need to speak to a pathologist. But get the histopathology first, see what it says - if any of those were the cause of death, then histopathology should pick it up, or at least raise the suspicion level a lot.

Best wishes,

Bruce

Again Bruce, thank you. It looks as though the San Diego Institute for Conservation Research offers the PCR. The test is less cost prohibitive than I thought it would be and I very well may begin to have this done on animals that I get from the classified when they have completed their quarantine but before they are allowed to join another, established group. Bruce, in a situation where more than one animal is obtained and these animals have been living together, would you recommend sampling and testing each animal or would you think that one could be sampled and it's results be representative of the group as a whole?

jewett said:

Again Bruce, thank you. It looks as though the San Diego Institute for Conservation Research offers the PCR. The test is less cost prohibitive than I thought it would be and I very well may begin to have this done on animals that I get from the classified when they have completed their quarantine but before they are allowed to join another, established group. Bruce, in a situation where more than one animal is obtained and these animals have been living together, would you recommend sampling and testing each animal or would you think that one could be sampled and it's results be representative of the group as a whole?

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Hi Heather,

I believe the PCR is generally very sensitive (likely to pick up positive cases) so you could do just one. However, all may not have any pathogen in sufficient quantity to be detected or other factors. I'm not aware of specific guidelines off-hand, but being paranoid I would tend to say at least 2 animals, and if a larger group then maybe test one for every 5 or so animals.