Legal Issues with International Import Export of Newts

I'd like to suggest that kind people willing to put newts up for bidding also consider putting eggs up for bidding so that those of us outside the U.S. or outside Europe could also participate.

Also, glad to see donations coming in. I want to stress it was never my intention to try and "out-donate" anybody here I consider my own humble donation as "back dues" for not having donated AT ALL over the past year or more despite my occupying VAST amounts of space on John's server. I have a few stories to tell about my dealings with PayPal and its "customer service" but will spare ya'll the gory details.

I like your idea Tim but I must point out that sending amphibian eggs through the post across international borders is probably not very legal ;(. Within the EU or the US it's not such a big deal unless the animals are CITES protected, but I think it might raise more than an eyebrow if international trade were condoned here on the site without a legal disclaimer.

Very good point John. Best not to associate this site in the least with any potentially illegal activity. I'd still like to propose an egg auction though, even with limited geographical scope. I could always participate through a locally-based proxy

I don't think it's that difficult to meet the legal requirements for many/most species.

Sending European caudates from/to EU member states will need some special attention (some species, including cristatus, even need CITES-like papers and import permits) but the exact paperwork needed will still be heavily dependant on the law of the respective country. Similarly, the US has (native) off-limits species as well as state-specific laws. But sending cristatus eggs from the US to Japan should be not much of a hassle AFAIK.

BTW, eggs/embryos are not considered to be "animals" by most (all?) postal services and can be send without additional restrictions. Of course, you still have to make sure to meet the needed temperature requirements during shipping and choose a fast delivery...

This brings up a good point about importing/exporting. What we need is an individual in the EU and one in the US that would be willing to get set up for this process, then charge a nominal fee to move LEGAL animals for other people between the US and Europe. I have a USFW office just down the street and was thinking about checking into it. I know there's an inspection fee on the US end, both inbound and outbound, but it may be worth looking into for consolidated shipments. What EU country is the most user friendly when it comes to export/import?

RUSS

Hi Russ,

definitely not Germany... (
(And I've heard some weird stories from the Netherlands, too.)

Belgium is known for its lax wildlife laws (no idea wether this is still true) and, thus, has a pretty bad reputation.

My guess is that the UK would be among the easier countries, especially with non-native species (even if strictly protected within the EC); and there's also a fair pool of breeders in this country. Austria might be worth a try, too.

Best wishes,
kai

From a US perspective, the main problem is the costs involved. I have exported twice from the US to the UK and imported twice from Europe and the total costs each time exceeded 250.00 for just shipping and inspection fees. This is not taking into account travel expenses(I had to drive 6 hrs each way to an "official port"), logistical problems and dealing with downright rude USFW officers. You would need to file form 2-177 with USFW and schedule an inspection(weekdays only and during 'regular business hours') in the very least. The package must also clear US customs before USFW will sign the paperwork (this doesn't happen automatically either). An import/export permit may be neccessary as you will get hassled if you are sending or receiving a large number of salamanders or newts-USFW will be convinced the shipment is for commercial purposes.

Also bring plenty of books along to the inspection to help USFW officers ID salamanders and newts that are not common pet trade species.

Just thought I would pass this along since I have been through the hell of import/ export.

Reading through the USFW web site does make one wonder if it's worth it. The "official port" list gave me the biggest cramp. The closest one for me is not the best place to ship to and from. If someone at an eastern port got involved it might fit the bill better.

RUSS

<font color="ff0000">I've moved these legal messages to their own thread.</font>

Russ, i've attempted to do this myself. i even have all the papers for it. but no one's interested. i've had one taker, but he backed out at the last minute (found someone to do it for free, albeit, illegally). and i've got a designated port exception permit, which allows me to move animals through detroit, instead of having to head to chicago.

i've never tried importing/exporting outside of north america, but i'm plenty willing to try with some of the more common newts first. if anyone's willing to take a gamble with me

As a comment I regulary send fish from the EU to the US via regulary postal service. Livebearers, one in each bag, packed in styroform boxes. Takes betwin 3 and 4 overnights and thats never a problem for the animals and we very rarely looses any. I also get some back again.
The fish are not Cites species. As most of them are highland species that dont take high temepratures well, you can comparre them to sending caudates.
Price is usual about 40 dollers per shipment of about 20 animals.

Martin

Probably the coordination of consolidated shipments would be the biggest hold back. How did you get the port exception?

RUSS

I wrote to the USFW saying that i was wishing to transport sals in order to establish breeding colonies in canada. as long as they're not being sold commercially, then i didnt have a problem. rob st john and i had worked out a pretty good system to do this. so if anyone's wishing to move animals, let me know