Starting a new tank

Hi,

I've been keeping about three japanese firebellies for a couple of years. However, from reading the site, it appears I've been doing quite a few things wrong!

I'm moving soon and would like to setup a new, 55 gallon tank. Can someone suggest suitable components to start this tank up? Right now I have a 20 gallon tank with an Eheim filter.

I can spend a maximum of about $500-700 on the new tank. I've found a tank and stand for about $150. Any suggestions are appreciated.

To expand on my previous tank, it's 20 gallon with about 4 inches of water. It has three rocks piled up to form an 'island'. It also has some underwater wood and a few plants. It has a small Eheim filter which runs down one rock (to not make too much current.)

I think what I have done wrong so far is to use gravel too large, not change enough water often enough, and not feed them correctly. I've been putting a small amount of bloodworms or brine shrimp (frozen) in about 3 times a week. I read this is a bad idea though, as it's likely much will go under the gravel and rot. I did have a paddletail in, but he had a fight with one of the firebellies and ripped off one of their legs I currently have them separated with the firebelly in his own tank, as I'm hoping his leg will grow back.

Anyway, any tips on the new tank you can provide would be appreciated. I will be keeping a separate 20 gallon for my paddletail (is it wise to put multiple paddletails in one tank?) and putting the firebellies in the 55gallon (I hope to get some friends for them.)

I've read all the information I can find, and the biggest problem seems to be keeping the water cool. Does anyone know of a relatively cheap way of doing this automatically? (i.e. not using frozen bottles.) I did look at chillers, but they all seem to be $500+. Not sure if they are necessary. If so, I would be happy to buy one if someone can recommend one.

Thanks for any help - all I want is for my newts to be happy!

Well, since no one has responded, here is what I planned. Let me know if you think this is a good/bad idea

I was going to slope the gravel down from one side to the other - about 2.5 inches at one end, down to an inch or less at the other. I was going to plant a decent amount of vegetation at the deep end, and pile up some rocks and wood at the other end. I was going to put an Eheim filter at the deeper end, in the rocks etc, so that the water spills down over the rocks, keeping them wet.

What else, equipment wise, do you think I should have in the tank? People have mentioned Duetto filters, but I've never seen these before. Can someone recommend extra equipment that will make my newts more comfortable?

The only reservations I have about this setup is cleaning - I think with all the rocks and plants, it will be tough to keep the gravel clean.

Any thoughts?

here's a link to the duettos your looking for:

http://www.petsmart.com/products/product_761.shtml

they are only 18.99US which is less then i paid.

*Do you know if you really have a japenese firebelly? Normally the pet stores carry Chinese firebellys. Here's the links:

Chinese firebelly:
http://www.caudata.org/caudatecentral/caresheets/C_orientalis.html

Japanese Firebelly:
http://www.caudata.org/caudatecentral/caresheets/C_pyrrhogaster.html

(wanted to make sure you care for the proper newt)

These pages are also FULL of care info.

good luck,

Steve

Yes, I am pretty sure they are Japanese. They have a more 'warty' skin than the Chinese, if I am correct? The chinese have a smoother, black skin? I did have a pair of Chinese firebellies at one point in a separate tank, but one escaped (I still am not sure how.) I actually prefer the Chinese firebellies, but until I find a good way of keeping the tank cool, I will stick with the Japanese, I think, as they seem to live better at high temps.

Thanks for the Duetto link. Is it worth running it alongside an Eheim, or will it suffice alone? (This will be for a 55 gallon tank, although obviously not full.)

Do you know of any good methods of keeping the tank cool enough for chinese?

Simon, actually, the care you have been providing so far sounds very good. If you set up the larger tank the same - but on a larger scale - it should be great. You need EITHER the Duetto or Eheim submersible (I am assuming that your Eheim is the submersible type). As an alternative, since you have a large tank and a good budget, consider a canister filter. A Fluval 104 canister filter costs about $55 in the US and I really like them. Although the 104 is rated for 20 gallon tanks, it has plenty of filtering power and would be fine for a 55 gallon, as long as the tank wasn't overloaded with plants or animals. Eheim also makes good canister filters.

I'm a bit confused about your statement that your gravel is too large. The gravel should be large enough that it cannot be swallowed, so large gravel is GOOD.

I don't like tanks designed with a "gravel slope" to provide land area. There are 3 BIG drawbacks to this design, in my opinion: (1) If you make the water very deep (and I would recommend 8+ inches for JFB) then you need a TON of gravel to make a slope that high. (2) Any thick layer of gravel will tend to trap debris and turn into an un-oxygenated unheathy region of decay. It's hard to clean the lower layer of gravel. (3) All that gravel is using up precious tank space that would be better used as living space for the animals. I MUCH prefer the kind of arrangement you have now, with rocks creating an island.

No, it's not safe to keep multiple paddletails together. They might get along, or they might fight to the death. Pretty risky.

Regarding keeping a tank cooler, there is a list of suggestions in the FAQs at:
http://www.caudata.org/caudatecentral/

Great, thanks for the info. I have heard a lot of people say Eheim is better than Fluval - is this just personal preference? Why would you recommend a canister filter over a Duetto? Right now I have the submersible type with a powerhead(?) but I don't keep the head underwater, as the water isn't deep enough (it sprays out over a rock.)

I have heard a lot of people say soil or sand is better than gravel. If this isn't the case, good, because I have a bag of about 10lbs of gravel

I didn't like the gravel slope idea, either. I thought cleaning would be hard. What I'm considering at this stage is to completely fill the tank, but build up a rocky area on one side, with some plants around it, so they have somewhere to hide and somewhere to climb out. Sound good?

I did read the cooling tips, but I didn't like most of the ideas (like using frozen bottles etc.) I would like a way to ensure constant cooling without having that much trouble (do I sound lazy?) Are there any decent appliances that can cool the water appropriately? I do keep the room AC on most of the time, but it gets a bit cold since I keep them in the living room I don't really want to put them in the basement because I live in an apartment building, and I also like to be able to watch them from my couch. I just wanna keep them in the house somewhere. I guess the constant AC is best at this time (I fear my electricity bill..)

Any other hints or tips are greatly appreciated. Thanks for the paddletail information by the way - I wish I'd known that before he'd bitten off one of my JFBs legs Hopefully he will recover (he now has a tank all to himself.)

Well, so far it looks like you've found all the help you need. I just want to clarify on the Eheim vs. Fluval thing. I work in a petshop, and I've found that we have many people report problems with fluval motors whereas Eheim people don't usually have a problem. We have an Ehiem canister filter that's been running since the 70's and it's still working great.

~Aaron

Thanks, Aaron. I have two Eheims that work well so I will probably stick with that brand name. Would you recommend getting a canister filter over the other choices?

You can use the internals if you have them to spare and they can handle the volume of water in the 55 gallon-about 45 gallons is good for the newts. Otherwise, you can invest in an Eheim canister filter which provides superior filtering power and very little work on your part. I would highly recommend the Ehiem Classic model#2213 for that tank. Another nice thing about the canisters is that they don't have excessive flow rates that will stress the newts.

~Aaron

Yes, if you don't mind the expense and some extra work during the set-up, then a canister filter is really the way to go. The filtration is just fantastic, you'll never see a speck of debris (unless it's trapped somehow).

There are some inexpensive cooling devices on the market now, such as the Ice Probe. But I haven't heard anyone tell how well they work in real life. They use "Peltier effect" cooling, which is not as powerful as a real chiller.

When you say 'extra work during the setup' what would be more difficult about setting up a tank with a canister filter?

Does the canister need to be totally submerged underwater? They sound really great from the way you guys are talking about them.

What is inside them? (E.g. sponge, carbon) and how often does it ened to be replaced?

The canister is an external unit. The only extra work would be getting it full of water(priming) which sometimes takes 20 mins or so. The only part of it that goes into your tank will be an intake tube and an output tube.

As far as what's inside of them, I'll explain based on what comes with the 2213 Eheim Classic. Water will flow into the bottom of the filter and out the top through several types of media:
1.Noodles-they will trap large particles.
2.Blue sponge-traps medium particles and grows bacteria
3.Gravel-grows bacteria
4.White sponge-traps smaller particles and grows bacteria
5.Carbon pad-eliminates meds,odor, and color from the water

This is what the filter comes with. However, carbon only lasts for about a month or so. What I do is just not worry about the carbon and then you only have to open up the canister about every six months or when water flow starts to slow dramatically. In order to clean it, simply turn off the valves, bring the filter to a sink, turn the intake pipe downwards and flush declorinated water through the filter. Regardless of how often you clean the filter, you should change 1/2 of the gravel every 6 months.

btw, my store sells them for 93.99

~Aaron

One more thing:

just replace the sponges as they wear out-they last quite a while

I would say there is a little more to the canister setup than that. You usually have to cut the tubes and tubing to the right length and assemble the unit with the various media. And, importantly, fit the tubes through the lid/hood of the tank and seal the area around them to prevent newt escapes. Also, you need space below the tank for the canister to sit (it's external).

BTW, priming shouldn't take 20 minutes if you fill the unit with water before attaching the tubing. The Fluval canisters have built-in priming, which takes like 5 seconds to get it started up. The first time I started it I did spend 20 minutes trying to prime it - because I had the in/out tubes reversed

The 20 mins priming was before I figured out how to do it. This particular model doesn't have a primer in it, but basically all you need to do is open both valves when it's put together and possibly clear the output tube.

~Aaron

I have mesh covers for my tanks, so I guess I could just snip holes in the the mesh and feed the tubes through? It sounds like a really great filter. Are they particularly noisy?

Completely totally quiet, which is another advantage. Yes, you can snip holes in a mesh cover (I did).

I do have a couple of final questions, one is not quite related to the new tank but anyway..

Large gravel or fine sand? I see benefits and downsides to both. What do you recommend?

I've been feeding my newts frozen bloodworms but I'd like to start feeding them earthworms/nightcrawlers etc.

How much, how often per newt?

i recon sand would be better because it would look better+its the axolotls natural environment sorta (its mud and silt as john said)+it looks more comfortable as well as they can move the sand to the shape they want it.

when i feed mine worms i just try to feed them as much as it looks like i use to feed them once a day.i have pics of mine in the pics section if ya want to look at them.