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The PetsMart Crusade

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andrea

Guest
Last night, I purchased a juvenille C. Pyrroghastor from PetsMart in Largo, Florida. They were in a 10 gal set up, with about an inch of water and land, and were being fed small crickets, and were all in generally good looking condition. This PetsMart also sold Firebelly Toads, loacated in the tank next to the newts. Apart from their misspelling the latin name of the newts, there was nothing I could see wrong with they way they were keeping them. Well.... TODAY I went into the PetsMart in Clearwater Mall before work and found a very disturbing site. They're were the same newts, only this time in a 10 gal split into a 5 with a divider. There were less newts, so I didn't think anything of it at first, until I looked into the other partition and saw the Fire Belly Toads. I looked back at the newts and noticed at least 4 fire belly toads (fairly large, big enough to do some damage to the juvenilles) in with them. I emediately found the fish attentand and informed her that if she left the toads in there, they would either kill or do major damage to the newts. She had no idea that could happen (and with past experiences in there, she really doesn't know anything about fish or amphibians) and said she had sold them as a pair recently to people. I told her she needed to get them out of there as soon as possible or the newts would suffer. She said maybe that was why she had found a few newts dead this morning... DUH.... Anyay.... Please, if you have a PetsMart near you, please check and see if they are doing the same thing, if they are, please let them know that it will harm the newts! I'd hate to see all of those little newts hurt just because of someone's stupidity!!!! I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, and if it's not, I'm sorry, but I really wanted you all to know what this highly respected pet store chain had been doing to it's caudates. Thank you.
 
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kaysie

Guest
We've launched tirades against Petsmart before. (what happened to the PetStupid article on caudateculture?) but they're a corporate entity, and for a good majority of the time, are only concerned about making money, not the best welfare for their animals. i dont do my shopping there, as i really dont trust their products. all my feeders and anything i need i buy from a local pet shop owned by hobbyists (of fish, but are still greatly concerned about their animals). plus, they're a lot cheaper than petsmart. petsmart offers no caretaking instructions for their newts or sals, or gives poor caresheets. sometimes their animals live on into old age, but mostly they die from stress and bad husbandry while either in the shop, or after being taken home due to the pet shop giving poor instructions. If you search around on the site, there are plenty of corporate-petshop horror stories.
 
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andrea

Guest
well, the PetsMart I bought him from had very healthy looking specimines, and the people in the fish area seemed very knowledgeable. The other one was a complete joke. Unfortunately, none of my local pet shops have newts, so I checked there and found my little guy. I was lucky because he seems to be doing quite well. The only thing I used to really like about PetsMart against other stores is that they do not sell puppies and kittens, rather they adopt and foster out dogs and cats. But as for their amphibian knowledge, they are seriously lacking. I am really considering getting a job there in the fish area so maybe I can prevent what is happening right now. I've had fish, reptiles and amphibians all my life, and in just about every pet store i go into I can answer more questions from people than the attendants... Oh well... guess I'll just have to wait until I get my business degree then I can open up a pet store of my own..
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chris

Guest
But, doesn't buying that animal give them the funds they need to buy more?!?
 
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andrea

Guest
i didn't realize that other store's kept them that way. The last couple time's I'd been to the new PetsMart in Clearwater Mall, they hadn't had amphibians, only the fish. Seeing them like that really has cemented my idea to own a pet store when I graduate college. (I know, get a college degree to own a pet store....
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)
 
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steve

Guest
When Petsmart opened a local store about a year ago, they had the firebellies in the same heated tank as the newts. The newts had varying degrees of damage from stress and aggression. Needless to say, I made an issue of bringing this to their attention every time I visited. I must have eventually explained the situation to the right person because after about the third time, they placed the newts in a separate tank and removed the heater. Ever since then, I get a few questions here and there regarding their various frogs, toads and newts from the staff. The most recent revelation offered, and I kid you not, was that tree frogs CANNOT be misted with tap water and to use spring water only. Since then, one of the guys has thanked me for the recommendation and said the frogs "are doing alot better". That feels good!

I believe that at least the staff actually do care to some degree about their critters which is certainly a better position than some others take (ahem! Walmart). If Petsmart actually put some minor resources into printing up some care sheets for their staff and customers, I believe that they could only improve their position.
 
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andrea

Guest
OH god... don't get me started on WalMart........ I lived right down the street from a Supercenter and decided one day to go ahead and get feeder fish while I was shopping........... HA!!!!! Just while waiting for an attendant (bout 1/2 hour) I answered more questions than he ever could. He even offered me his badge........... That is really really sad.....
 
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christina

Guest
Well, I'm new to this site and new to fire belly newts (love my little guys), but I just wanted to say...

I got mine from Petsmart as well, and they did have them in the same tank with the toads. They even let my friend get two toads and a newt and told her it was ok to put them both in the same tank. I've shown her this thread.

Anyway, I've been very pleased with my Petsmart (not pleased at all with the other one a bit further from me) as far as how they take care of all of the animals/fish/reptiles and their knowledge. If they don't know the answer, they go ask someone else or just tell me they don't know.

I was planning on going again tomorrow just to browse around and I'll mention the newt/toad problem to my two salespeople there.

- Yavie
 
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christina

Guest
Thanks for the link! I sent it to my friend - boy am I glad she still has a smaller tank to move the newt into.

I'm going to talk with the manager at Petsmart tomorrow (and "my" fish and reptile people) and if a simple talk doesn't produce results, I'll show them those posts.

Now if only I could find a good locally-hobbyist-owned store around here. The first one I tried had dead fish floating in the tanks and rodent cages stuffed to the brim
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- Yav
 
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sarah

Guest
I think the biggest problem with big chain stores is that they don't offer adequate training to those who will be manning the departments that sell the live animals. In some stores you'll see beautifully kept fish and amphibians, while the same chain store not even twenty miles away will have absolutely deplorable conditions on all their animals. I've even seen stores that have great fish but horrible conditions for the furry animals... and vice versa.

I wonder why it is that everyone gets all up in arms when something even remotely cruel happens to a puppy or kitten or some other furry little critter but no one seems to care that thousands of fish and amphibians and reptiles are suffering every day in pet stores because they don't spend the time training their associates properly. If they just took the time to even print up info sheets on the fish... or even just print up ONE book with maybe laminated pages that they could keep in their fish department so that they could provide accurate info about all the species they sell... I think the whole chain would do better.

Honestly though pet store chains really don't make their money in selling animals... no matter how overpriced they are. They make their real money in selling supplies, food, tanks, etc. The live animals are an afterthought. Think about it... nearly all the fish you find are easily mass produced species (sorry for constant fish references, I'm not only a newt and sallie lover, but a fish hobbyist too.) the reptiles are ones that are common, the mammals are things like hamsters and mice that are extremely prolific. If they sell you a sick fish and it dies... you have to come in to either get a refund or a new fish.... and some expensive medications, specialty foods, maybe a whole new tank.... you get the idea. I have heard from a certain fish hobbyist that I'm good friends with that a certain local store would often sell a person a cichlid and then sell them ick medicine... why? because the cichlid has little white spots on its anal fin.... spots that indicate its sexual maturity not an illness. That's where they get you.

I'm on the boat myself and I'd much rather go to hobbyist breeders rather than chain stores but some things can just be found cheaper in big stores... especially for fish breeders. I usually go to breeders for my fish stock lately and only bring repeat business to the local mom & pop stores that I have found to have really good practices, high quality products/animals, and knowledgeable associates.

I'm disgusted sometimes too... I just don't get what it is that makes fish and amphibians not worthy of being covered in animal treatment laws. I mean really... if puppies or kittens were being kept in conditions synonymous with some fish and amphibian tanks.... these chains would all be shut down or forced to better educate their staff.

My two pennies on the subject,

Sarah
 
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andrea

Guest
i would love to start a petition for legislation in that area, but with florida's current government and the slack in the regular animal cruelty laws, i'm not sure it would do very well. As soon as I'm out of college, I plan to start an animal (don't like calling it pet) store that will serve as not only a place to purchase certain pet-acceptable animals, but training in the animal and sanctuary for unwanted smaller animals. There are always places to take birds, dogs, and cats, but what happenes when you move and can't find someone to take an amphibian or a hampster or fish, or anyother animal if you can't? Nowhere around me. Pet supply chains are a good idea, for the availability and discounted cost of supplies, but not for the sale of animals. And believe me, my employee's will be well educated in their area of care, or they won't work there, plain and simple....... gah..... i wish i didn't have to wait unitl after college to do this!!!
 
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s1ren

Guest
Andrea, don't discount your ability to make a difference. About 5 years ago, I was part of a letter-writing campaign against Mal-Wart, of all places, to either change their treatment of Bettas or stop carrying them, in a certain city in Florida (don't remember which one, it was a long time ago) - and they DID actually stop carrying them. They started again a year later...but hey, at least we got something done.

Some good news: a friend of mine got a job at a local PetsMart a few months ago, and immediately started making noise about the fish and 'phibs. Her managers listened to her: they put her in the aquatics department, and she cleaned their act right up. The place keeps newts and fish in great conditions now, and most of the employees my friend has trained know what they're doing, and actually CARE what they're doing now.

The bad news: I went into a local herp shop (a local chain) about two weeks ago and saw a tiger salamander in a 10g tank with about 1/2" of gravel substrate and 2" of water in the tank. No land area, nothing cleaning the water, no place to hide, nothing at all except the water and gravel...and a gigantic heat lamp on the top of the tank. I gave the one employee on duty and his supervisor a stern talking to, and they removed the heat lamp right away, but still haven't done anything about the rest of the conditions. Even local outfits sometimes just don't care. I'd have bought the little fella...but I tore myself away, thinking it's best not to give them my financial support for treating animals like that. I know this particular shop is on it's way out, anyway - they're losing money like nobody's business, and have closed all but one store, when they had previously had six locations in three cities!
 

John

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It`s interesting revisiting this thread. I have since moved to the USA (Texas) and I have yet to see a newt for sale in Petsmart. Perhaps you guys made a difference.
 

Otterwoman

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Same up here in NY, I've never seen one in Petsmart, though I've seen fire-belly newts and frogs at Petco (in the same enclosure...)
 
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