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Wild caught Lissotriton boscai

B

bernardino

Guest
Yesterday i was reading the amphibian list of one important USA reptile store and I found that they were offering wild caught Lissotriton boscai. My question is how con they have those newts if in all their distribution range (Spain and Portugal) its illegal to capture and sell them?
And if we take a look to some other post in this place, like the one about Chioglossa, Im starting to believe that there is an illegal market established in Spain(were I live) and/or Portugal, that is exporting illegally newts to other places.
I hope that my thoughts are wrong!
Best regards
dino
 
S

sergé

Guest
Don't think your thought's are wrong. Apparently people are capturing animals in Portugal or Spain and shipping them illegal to the USA where they are not protected. This is possible as the animals are not CITEs listed, so american customs will let the shipment pass. It is something to worry about, but officially it is something for the customs of Portugal or Spain to pay attention to it. I would recommend to send this to your officials.
I would be interested to know which trader it is, so I can make this a case to the EU officials.

kind greetings, sergé
 
C

chris

Guest
Just a note on the chioglossa - I was offered them in the UK, not the USA - so this problem may be more widespread than just in the States.
Hopefully the authorities will take it seriously
Chris
P.S. Having been informed of the legislation protecting Chioglossa, I will certainly not be purchasing any animals
 
F

francesco

Guest
I remember seeing some adult salamandra gigliolii offered for sale on a japanese web site some time ago.
We can add Calabria to the list of places where amphibians are illegally caught to be sold abroad.
 
S

sergé

Guest
It is sad i know, but when demand is high, and prices are equally interesting there are always people who try to smuggle animals out of their habitats. I know that for instance adults S. s. gigliolii were also offered by a German trader who claimed they were captive bred (yeah, right, many adult animals all captive bred...). But the problem is that authorities can not do much about it if the animal is not protected in the country where they are offered, unless they are caught on the spot or at a border control. When L. boscai are in the US, nothing can be done like the S. s. gigliolli in Japan, but Chioglossa in the UK is definately possible to act, as these animals are protected also in the UK by EU law.
Can you tell me who (or which shop) offered them?
 
C

chris

Guest
Sergé
I got wind of the sale of the chioglossa by word of mouth. I wasn't told which trader had brought them in, only that they were available. Since I didn't realise that they were protected at the time, I didn't enquire further....damn
angry.gif

Sorry
Chris
 
R

rubén

Guest
Well, I want to say that, first of all: L. boscai and chioglossa are protected animals by local laws in Spain and E.U. laws.

And after this, I would like to say too, how rare and infrequent is this salamander. Surely the most threatened caudate here...

I heard several stories about "herp huntings" regarding this species ( Chioglossa )
 
P

paris

Guest
ok-so here's my naive question (cause i don know the rules..) how is it that an animal can be locally protected and protected under the EU but not be protected by CITES?
 
B

bernardino

Guest
Hello!
One answer to your question could be that the european laws are more restrictive than cites is, and that's how some european amphibians, like chioglossa lusitanica, are more protected by EU laws than by CITES. And also, Spanish laws states that is forbidden to capture, sell or maintain all amphibians and reptiles that live in Spain.
dino
 
C

caleb

Member
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Sorry to say this, but the Chioglossa are not protected under UK law, once in the country. I've mentioned this before- the UK implementation of the Habitat & Species directive doesn't implement any protection for non-native species.

This is due to ambiguous wording of one of the clauses, which the UK chose to interpret differently to most other EU states...

Are L./T. boscai definitely protected in Portugal? Yago's magazine article implied that they weren't.
 
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