Visiting Toscany

Hi Herpers (especially italian ones),

I will go to the toscany end of next week for vacation. What is interesting to visit herp-wise. Any special areas with good opportunities to see some animals (reptiles9?
What about lake Trasimone?

Thanks for any suggestion.

Uwe

Hello Uwe,
I can't give you specific advise, but this time of the year is not the best timing..reptiles are merely active at dusk and dawn and most amphibians (except for some green frogs) will be non-active..but Speleomantes can be found if you can find caves. Even the ones made for the taking of marble stone can be suitable.

Sergé

Hi Sergé,

thank you for your input. Yes it´s true it is not the best timing, but a good time for leisure vacation.
I may see some reptiles and I am interested in the Bombinas, which should live in the pools in marble quarries.
The region I will go (Pratomagno) is even pretty forested and up to 1500m high. Lets see.

Unfortunately seem no Italians around at the board at the moment.

Uwe

Hi everyone, especially Sergé,

despite the no-input of our italian herpers, the trip was pretty successful herp-wise.
Interesting is the Carapax-Center in Massa Marritima, which is dedicated to the reproduction of many various turtles. They have more or less all European land turtles and a huge selection of water- and mud-turtles throughout the world.

I also saw turtles in nature, but only american immigrants.

The big hit was the encounter of S.s.giglioli. I even saw larvae of them in the creek as late as 25.August, which seems amazing to me.
Got anyone an opinion about the borderline zone of S.s.s. and S.s.g. throughout the appenine? Thiesmeyer claims a very broad zone, which I found nowhere else.

Uwe

Hi Uwe,

did you take pictures of the Carapax centre? I have had some information that for instance all Trachyemys are kept in ways that they can easily escape and form a threat to the autochtonous Emys.
From a genetical point of view only animals south of Napoli seem to be 'gigliolli' (Steinfartz, 2000), and from a morphological point of view it is so that the high yellow specimens are only found in the south. Thiesmeier shows many pictures of Italian specimens and there you can see that at least the northern Italian ones are highly variable. I have seen specimens in the Alpi Apuane and they had the same stout robust body of southern ones, but where not so high yellow.

Hi Sergé,

yes I took pictures from the Carapax Center. They have something called the "Florida-Lake", which is quite huge and an incredible amount of american Zierschildkröten in it. I think they had also the project to see, if the animals reproduce in the italian climate. The easy escape was not obvious.
On the other hand I saw close to Firenze some red-ear turtles which were probably brought in from keepers around the area.
With giglioli you are right about the citation. Thiesmeyer however found also giglioli-like animals somewhere close to Carrara. What I have heard is, the the yellow signs of the animals are increasing with age. In the southern population it is definite more yellow than in the north. I suppose that this is a huge mixing zone nominate and giglioli with examples to each side. The animals I saw on land where similar to S.s.s., but with a little more yellow.
I try to send you a picture.

I don´t have your actual e-mail adress.

BTW: Sorin Damian asked for your actual e-mail adress. If you want I can send you his.

See you

Uwe