USA- USPS not accepting amphibians?

erik · Jul 26, 2005

I have been using USPS express mail for over 13 years to send salamanders. Today I got turned away. I spoke with 3 people (including postmaster) at my local post office who all claim you can not send any live animals with USPS anymore. I thought it might be personal and that they were making this up....so I called the 1800 number and was told that they don't accept cold blooded animals anymore.

Anyone else have this experience? The usps website still states it's ok to send amphibians. This is really unfortunate since the last time I used Fed Ex or DHL the bill was nearly 80.00 for a small box.

Any info appreciated.

Erik

edward · Jul 26, 2005

Hi Erik,
The regulations may permit them to ship but the final decision is up to the post master at that office. If in thier opinion, they no longer want to ship cold blooded animals then they no longer have to ship cold blooded animals.
Try a different post office and you will probably get a different answer.
Or this may be a new policy that has not made into the regulations as of yet.

Ed

paris · Jul 26, 2005

mine has not told me otherwise yet, and they knew i shipped a box of frogs last week, i dont see why they can still ship baby chicks and not snakes, etc. for those shippers i knew were squeemish about r&a, i would tell them the 'perishables-keep cool' were rare orchids. if they really have changed their policies doesnt that also then apply to the very large mail order fish trade? this will make things difficult....

john · Jul 26, 2005

LOL at the rare orchids...there's always a way around people who don't want to cooperate. I seriously doubt it's a new USPS global policy. I think Ed's first conclusion is probably the true case.

jennifer · Jul 26, 2005

There have been cases in the past where a particular PO will refuse live animal shipments. The reason is that USPS subcontracts with other air carriers, and some of them won't take live animals.

I did some searches, but this is the only relevant article that discusses a change in live animal policy.
http://www.hm-e.net/_borders/please_consider_joining.htm
I wish I could find something directly from the USPS.

edward · Jul 26, 2005

Paris,
Just an FYI, shipping them in an improperly marked box is a federal offence under the LACY act.....

Ed

michael · Jul 26, 2005

My post master told me they couldn't ship live animals in the hot weather. I told her it was just salamanders and their were ice packs with them. She said that's not really live animals and sent them. I use 3 different post offices and have had good results that way. If one refuses shipment another will often ship. None of them are often certain of the rules.

foster · Jul 26, 2005

I had a similar experience about 5 years ago with some anoles that I shipped to Canada. The PO that I normally use (and has familiar staff) told me that I could not ship lizards to Canada. I went to another and was able to ship with no problems.
Chip

erik · Jul 26, 2005

I'll try another post office. My gut feeling was that this was personal. A few weeks ago the postmaster here told me it was against the law to send amphibians via USPS, I corrected her and made her look it up. I guess she didn't like being wrong and now suddenly she claims the rules have changed.

I was the one who almost went postal today. I was treated like a criminal which I am used to since I also keep snakes, but I was sending frogs today.

I'm not sure why the person at the 1-800 # said it was illegal, but she may have misread it.

I had to use fed ex which set me back 80.00 for one small box!

thanks for the input everyone....

russ · Jul 26, 2005

Erik

I just checked on this last week myself because a friend had been misinformed by his local post office about shipping lizards. All amphibians may be shipped, but it does state that the postmaster has the discretion to specify the type of shipping used or to deny it based on the welfare of the animals (hot weather?). I would also use the above advise and just use a different office.

And as far as the Lacy Act, the minimum markings are quantity, origin, permit/liscence (if required) and species. You all that have received animals from me probably noticed the preprinted sticker I use. This seems to be selectively enforced based on how pissed off the USFG or the local fish cops are at you. To mark the box incorrectly is a direct violation.

(Message edited by rust on July 27, 2005)

ester · Jul 27, 2005

All very well and I would hate to commit any violation. But why do they make it so insanely difficult to ship anything between countries then? If I want to ship newt eggs, apparently I have to get a veterinary bill of health for them.

And there isn't a web site to be found which specifies what other paperwork might be required. For example I have no clue yet if import/export documents are required.

Also, when you try doing it legally, chances are big _all_ transport companies available to regular customers refuse your package.

The most interesting bit is that it's even more difficult to get any info if the animals/eggs involved are not protected by Cites, because then there seems to be no one who can answer questions regarding their transport.

Small wonder people ship things as "Egg of Newt - Harry Potter Potions Ingredients".

paris · Jul 27, 2005

i dont mark the boxes anything other than 'perishable' and "keep cool/dont freeze", some boxes do get marked 'live', my local post office has not told me i was in error there, i am afraid that if one marks it 'live harmless reptiles' or anything like that that some handlers who are not fond of such things will mistreat the package, the clerk at my local knows i am sending animals and has not told me i have to mark the box with contents (within the US), the frogs i sent last week were just marked 'live', so does this mean i need to directly ask my PO clerk for full details? the only time i had an issue at my local was when i said they were on ice and the original box was marked 'dry ice'-then they had an issue until i told them it was just ice packs and the sticker was from a previous shipment that came in that box.

as of carriers, i was told by the PO that the USPS has now contracted with fed EX for some of their overnight services, this was at the time i was shipping those frogs though and he didnt mention they werent allowed even though he knew.

edward · Jul 27, 2005

Paris,
Regardless of what the person that the front desk told you verbally, that method of shipping is a violation of the LACY act and unless you have it in writing with a signature from the person at the desk, it is not a defense.

Ed

paris · Jul 27, 2005

wow, well i guess i will have to read up on it, its odd though because i have gotten shipments from dealers over the years and the most they have had is a sticker or writing 'live harmless reptiles or frogs' marked on them-a good majority have just been marked 'live animals' and a few have been marked 'live fish', none have had external paperwork that lists contents and counts like russ mentions.

russ · Jul 27, 2005

Paris

That's my point about the marking requirements (which is for interstate shipments only), they're selectively enforced. The real problem tends to be misinformation on the part of the shippers. In the US all amphibians MAY be shipped by USPS, but then again the post master has discretion. I too have ran into the problem where someone at the desk didn't want to touch the box once they found out what was in it. Instead of making an issue of it I just went to another facility.

ira · Jul 27, 2005

fedex had never really charged me more than 36 bucks for an 8x8x8 inch box, sent overnight priority. they dont seem to have a problem with the live animals either.

paris · Jul 27, 2005

so, excuse my ignorance on this, but does the LACY act apply to non native species and species that are not on any sort of risk list? and is this a USPS issue then really or are USFW issue that the post office just happens to be involved in because they are a shipping service?

edward · Jul 27, 2005

Paris,
the LACY act covers any shipment of any animal across a state border that involves a commercial transaction of some form (trade, breeding loan, sale are some but not all of the commercial actions that are covered). So if you drove some illegally collected newts over a state border to sell them you would be violating the LACY Act....

Russ,
In my experience it is not selectively enforced but selectively policed.....(due to insufficient numbers of personnel and redirection for homeland security potential bioterrorism threats).

Ed

russ · Jul 27, 2005

It also covers non-commercial interstate activities. The Lacey Act and USPS rules both compliment and contradict each other. We all break rules from time to time and never even know it.

edward · Jul 27, 2005

Russ,
Which noncommercial activities are covered??

Ed

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