Withering elodea

Any gardening tips on keeping elodea in good shape?

I've been told it thrives in good light, but my free-floating elodea (100 or more strands) has tended to wither even after adding overhead lights to the 155cmx60cmx60cm tank in question (housing Cynops ensicauda).



Part of the prob may be the size of the tank. The distance from the light to the water is about 40cm...so light penetration may have been insufficient.

To address this possibility, I've just added two submersible lights (it's become cool now in the room so no worry about the fact that they raise the tank temp a couple of degrees).



My book on aquarium plants tells me elodea prefers eutrophic (well-nourished), alkaline water (pH 7.5-10) with a high percentage of calcium, dislikes high temps, demands direct light, and should be planted in unwashed sand with clay mud.

Hmmm...the tank bottom is bare, but I suppose i could plant the elodea in pots...

There are several large pieces of driftwood in there that may tend to lower the pH, but I suppose I could raise it back up again by using some Tetra-brand liquid formula I have on hand for use with my fish...

I've already added liquid plant nutrition and have considered but decided against adding a CO2 unit. The tank seems to be getting good aeration and circulation (with a large sponge filter and two submersible Fluvals).

Besides any general tips anybody may have, my specific questions are: Could raising the pH to over 7.5 have any ill effect on the newts? Could adding calcium to the water have any negative effect?

The aforementioned book advises: "adding pieces of chalk, calcium carbonate or lime water into the tank."

Thanks in advance

Tim

Ok, first of all, can you raise the water level at all? From all I've heard, read, and observed, cynops enjoy deep water. Also, I don't even plant my elodea, so bare-bottom tank is fine.

The next issue is lighting. According to my calculations, you should have at least 460 watts of light on the tank.

Another thing you should consider would be liquid fertilizer. In a tank that size and with that many plants, you definately need additional nutrients.

CO2 would be a very good idea as well. I'm sure that the plants are probably suffocation from lack of CO2. You can make your own CO2 injector very simply and cheaply. I will post instructions later tonight.

I'm not sure about the higher Ph, but many cynops, being pond dwellers naturally, would generally experience more acidic water.

Hope this was of help,
~Aaron

Hi Tim,
be careful not to establish a layer of carbon-dioxide above waterlevel (its heavier than nitrogen, respectively air) or you will risk suffocation of your newts (when coming to the surface gulping for air). So, if you think you need extra CO2 provide good ventilation of your tank.
Elodea or Egeria should be fine without bottom substrate. You could try to improve lighting or thinning out some of your submerged vegetation. Fascilitates the search for eggs, although C.e.p. loves a densely planted tank.
Ralf

Aaron, thanks a lot and please do post those instructions!

Is it anything similar to this contraption that I bought long ago but lost the instructions to?



It's supposed to use yeast, I think, but I don't know what to mix the yeast with and in what amounts. The CO2 canisters typically on sale here are for smaller tanks and seem pretty uneconomical for larger ones like this:



Well, I guess I could raise the water level higher (so long as the floor doesn't cave in!), but that'd mean even less CO2 in the water...

Ralf, Thanks for that tip. I could use a minifan for that. I did consider thinning out the plants, but wuld prefer to thicken them even more. The newts pretty much lay their eggs on plastic strips and rope anyway, rather than elodea.

Light, CO2, PH, calcium, nutritiants, fertilizer...almost makes me wanna just go with artificial plants!

Tim

The injector that I speak of does indeed use yeast. Please forgive me for not using all metric measures-as I am not sure of some of them.

The Injector:
Basically, I take the cap from a 2 liter soda bottle and poke a hole in it(a little smaller than the diameter of the airline tubing). I use the flexible silicon tubing and force it through the hole. You want it to be a very tight fit to prevent the loss of CO2. I have gotten it down to a science, so to speak, and I don't have a problem with CO2 escaping. If you do notice that it is leaking, you may use aquarium silicon to seal it-I don't seal it in the event that if too much pressure builds up, the tube will just pop out instead of the bottle bursting. I then incorporate a valve into the airline tubing to control the flow of CO2.

The Mixture:
I use 1.5-2 cups of sugar and about 1.3 liters of lukewarm water in a 2 liter soda bottle. You DO NOT want hot water, as it will kill the yeast when added. Mix the sugar and water until it has disolved. Then, add 1 teaspoon of yeast to the mix. Put on the cap and close the valve for approximately 45 minutes to allow the CO2 production to start.

Shoot, I have to go to school. When I get home, I will tell you the most efficient ways to get the CO2 into the tank. I will also include a few warnings.

~Aaron

Hi Tim,

<nitpicking-on>
BTW, that seems to be Egeria densa.
<nitpicking-off>

There is no need to use CO2 for Egeria (at least as long the pH of the water doesn't rise above 8 or so) - they are perfectly happy to use carbonates (present in any tapwater). However, Elodea really needs a lot of light and with your set-up only thinning them out on a regular basis will help to keep them from loosing their basal leaves. No need for fertilizers either as long as the young leaves stay as green as they currently are.

Another option for tanks with low light intensity is to plant Cryptocoryne in some shallow pots (some clay with clean gravel as top soil). C. aponogetifolia does well in large tanks and crispatula (usually sold as balansae) will get along in small tanks. C. usteriana is somewhat in between. All don't like soft water and won't mind low temperatures in winter. There are other plants with less light requirements than Elodea or Egeria - just give it a try if you can grab a runner from fellow aquarists... ;o)

Hi Tim.

I think Kai is right about that being Egeria densa. In the English language at least, this is what people mean when they say Elodea, even though it's a completely different genus.

Kai, I agree that CO₂ injection is not necessary for growing Egeria densa, but if you want to grow a lot of it in a hurry, Sunlight + warmth + CO₂ can cause Egeria densa to grow incredibly fast. I've done it .

Ok, I'm back.

CO2 is very easily absorbed by water-and thus evaporates very quickly. In order to prevent the loss of CO2, you will want to avoid surface aggitation in the tank.

Ok, now what you need is a way for the CO2 to be absorbed by the water. This can be done in several ways. Whichever method you choose, you should be looking to adjust the flow rate to about 1-2 decent-sized bubbles ever 5-10 seconds.

After the flow rate is set, you can do something as simple as connect an airstone to diffuse the large bubbles and make them more easily absorbed into the water. Other methods that work well(most likely better) are sending the CO2 directly into the intake of a canister or internal filter. Some people also feed the CO2 into a powerhead for diffusion.

The only real downfall to injecting CO2 is that after a while, it may start to lower your Ph. This can be avoided by keeping up on your water changes.

In conclusion, CO2 can supercharge the growth of any plant, provided you have enough light and nutrients in the tank. The mix should be shaken up every day or two to keep it productive. Usually after 14-21 days, the mix will be expired and you will have to create another one. I've seen results in less than one week when injecting CO2, properly lighting, and adding the correct amount of fertilizer.

Have fun-
~Aaron

Thanks Aaron for those detailed tips and John & Kai for additional pointers. I'm off to the stores right now to stock up more Egeria (or a seemingly hardier but similar-looking plant I have in another tank already), along with yeast, silicon, clay, tubing, etc.

But going back to calcium, no need for that or would it help?

What would be an ideal PH range that would allow plants to thrive without adversely affecting the newts?

And finally, do these plants REQUIRE warmth to thrive? I'm intending to keep the main "newtorium" room cold through the winter months.

Tim

No idea about the whole calcium thing, but I wouldn't do it. Ph should be fine around 6.5-7.5 These plants will grow just fine in temperatures around 45 degrees-I'm not sure about colder temps.

~Aaron

Went and bought another 300 strands of Egeria densa over the weekend, along with a special (and pricey!) overhead aquarium light (Giesemann Nova II) that will ensure there'll never again be inadequate light (though I wouldn't want to fry my newts with excessive UV rays either...)

Anybody else using one of these lights with their newts? The submersible ones are quite impressive too, and the newts seem to congregate around them at times.

Was told by the plant section guy at the tropical fish shop that what I should also do is more frequent water changes, which would introduce CO2, raise the PH to a more suitable level, etc..

This I did last night, at which time it struck me how poor the water quality really was. That may also have been a factor. Plan to permanently rig up a long garden hose beside the tank to make it easier to do water changes more frequently...

Kai, I found two types of Cryptocoryn but not aponogetifolia, crispatula/balansae or usteriana.

John, not that I ever doubted you for a moment, but Egeria densa was indeed being sold as Elodea, and the shopkeeper sheepishly acknowledged it was not...

Aaron, got the yeast so now I'm ready for some CO2 action.

Thanks guys!

Tim