Found pond of very strange paedomorphs in canadian rockies.

Im currently in penticton BC, i was out doing some lake scouting towards keremeos and found a mildly alkalai lake way off the main stretch that had ample plant life, was swimming with legions of shrimp, and did not seem to have a lot if any preditory fish.

I went down to it hoping to find signs of neotenic adult Ambystoma Mavortium.

The first thing I found was the empty shell of a yearling western painted turtle stuffed upside-down under a submerged branch.

I walked along the lake shore keeping my eyes on the bare area between the shore and the vegetation for some foraging aquatic salamanders.

after a long walk I came into a cove area and spotted dozens of salamander carcass.
they were generally between 10-13 inches long, fragile, and heavily decayed.
I assumed that they were Neotenic adults of Ambystoma mavortium var. diaboli. As that is what i would expect to find here.

I took a few photos, some were little more than bones and some cartilage. then I found one almost entirely intact. Now, I've seen MANY variations of tiger salamander morphs, but never anything like this. it had short but well formed feathery gills, very much like you would see in an axolotl, a fat rounded head, not the characteristic shovel-like tiger salamander head.
the costal grooves were very distinct, the color was a dark grey-brown with solid visable spots, not the dull green of the normal tiger.

essentially what im saying is that these salamanders looked EXACTLY like wild axolotls.

It is the old "partial thaw/ trapped under the ice" kill that caused this no doubt, And i intend to return with a net and the proper footwear to get a pic of a living specimine.

But i DID take some pics of the carcass, and if i can find a comp with a USB port for my camera i will post them.

Im fairly certain that people here will know what I mean when I say they look like wild axies and little like tiger salamanders when I can get the pics posted.

I know it's impossible to have axolotls in interior BC and that these MUST be tigers. but I think there's something odd about this particular population.

Hello Mitch,

looking forward to see the pictures of a specimen (dead or alive!)

Is it possible that they could be "feral" released axolotls? If not, then I would suspect they are a variant of tiger that simply bears a close resemblance. Interesting, either way. Keep us posted!

I highly doubt they could be feral axies.
although its a fine habitat full of prime food and dense submerged vegitation. This town is quite uninitiated in caudata culture.
the closest thing to a pet axolotl here would be a wal-mart newt.

I have a leucistic ive had for years back in nova scotia that im bringing out when i move here permanently in a month. that will make the local population skyrocket from zero to a whopping one.

As far as these mysterious pedomorphs go, I't is outside of the known range of ambystoma gracile by a hundred or so kilometers. and they are just too big in size i think. But macroscopically, they look more like a. gracile neotenes than tigers. more lumpy, rotund, and piggish, you know? not that characteristing green / brown shovel-headded tiger morph.

Then again, the most intact specimine i found was long since decesed, and parts were nibbled away and falling off. the caudial fin was still very visable and recessed into the back like in older axies. It was certainly sexually mature by many seasons. It had that thick, somewhat pellucid pitted translucent skin that you see on axolotls when you look closely, whereas with neo-tigers, they have a smoother, thinner looking skin.

and the coastal grooves were far deeper than what one would akin to tigers, more like a. gracile.

But then when you get down to bare bones, who knows? Ive never seen a neotenic tiger older than 5 years. perhaps they become more like axolotls when neotenic long-term in permanent waters.

I intend to go snorkeling there in the summer. the water is relitively clear compared to the milky alkaline lakes around here, furthermore, its one of the few lakes not protected.

I spoke with my wifes cousin who is in charge of all the local conservation, and he said that dispite the red-listing of tiger salamanders in BC, the populations in that particular valley are considered stable and at little to no risk so my activity in the area would be acceptable.
(this also takes into account that im not molesting or misplacing the animals)

As far as I can tell, this is an unknown population. officially, neotenes have only been found in 3 lakes in BC. two of which are declared and the remaining one is in an agricultural area.

But then, dispite declared concern, I can find little in the way of serious conservation efforts

Once i get settled, and have my own house, i intend to have a pond and maintain a breeding population. just to act as a buffer in case a pond gets wiped out.

Local authority still refers to the tiger salamanders as a. tgrinum. so i suppose it goes to show you how the profession involved in herpetology may still be years behind the hobby.

I've always felt that the hobbyests should be involved in the conservation efforts.

Someday axolotls will owe their existance to the hobby. sadly. I wish the mexican government would allow a few specimines from each pond to be perpetuated in the hobby as well so all the obscure mexican species could be known and kept alive in the sad event of a population wipe.


oh my god, im on a rant.

ill stop now untill i can get those pics

There, NOW you know what im talking about.

the white one with no elements for perspective is about 3 ft out, in 2 ft of water, and over a foot long.

but the mostly intact one is the real find here.

Well, I'm not seeing too much that would lead me to suspect they are anything other than large paedomorphic mavortium at this point. I have seen some pretty bulky preserved tiger larvae from western states that I would have sworn were axolotls. I've also bought baitshop "waterdogs" that show the small spotting like the last photo. I guess now that you have us interested, you absolutely must get a photo of a live animal.

i very much hope too soon. tho i expect i may need to wait till its warm enough to snorkel, and judging by the intactness of the ice-killed specimin in the last photo, it may be quite a wait. The markings certainly match those one would see on a terrestrial morph diaboli.
It's just that I've kept diaboli in both forms and even had them get larger aquatically than any of these I've found, And they never looked like the specimine here. they spots never emerged until fully morphed, and the very large ones never really lost the tiger salamander (shovel) look.

But then hey, at the very least its an isolated population by mountains and pseudo desert, isolated features are probably to be expected.

I'm very excited anyway, It's the first time I've been in a tiger salamander range. I'ts all I want to do around here.