Plethodon cinereus - General Care

Today i was out in my yard mulching and we pulled out a tree that we had bought a few years ago and had failed to grow, we had simply buried the pot and tree in the ground, When we pulled it outi thought i saw nice big juicy worms at the bottom which i was gonna feed to my water dragon. Once i got down on my hands and knees i realized that these little worms, were salamanders.
There are two of them, one is signifigantly larger then the other. i'd say an 1/2 inch to inch longer.
I brought them inside and placed them in one of my old fish tanks (yes it had a tight lid.) with some damp cocunt fiber bedding. I didn't give them any open water, or any form of heat. I figured that they were under ground, and not near water(i do have a creek in my back yard)
I went to petsmart and picked out some EXTREMLY TINY crickets, though they weren't pinheads. the smaller salamander ate one of the crickets.
Tomarrow i'm transferring them both into a 5 1/2 gallon tank. I plan to breed a female cricket inside the tank with them... (take an old guppy breeder and invert it on the floor of the tank, have her in their with a male, and lay eggs, then when the pinheads hatch, they'll be able to crawl out and the salamanders can eat them.
i know to keep them cool...
However, what the temperture range??? My room is 68-70.
Here are my questions...
Is there any simple ways to identify sex?
is it safe to assume i have a male and a female, since i found both in the same 18" hole?
What are agressive/territorial behaviors.?
Temperture range?
Humidity levels?
Substrates?
Feeding? (pinheads, baby roaches?, extra small pheonix worms?, extra small mealworms? flightless fruit flys) Which of those will make a good "staple" diet.
By the way, we already poisend our yard with pesticides, fetilizers and the such, so i figured it would be safer for them in captivity then in my yard.

You may start off with the information at CC, http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Plethodon/P_cinereus.shtml.

yes, i read that, anything that was easily accesible on the internet i've read. that was the first thing i read. but is the worst care sheet i've ever seen for any reptile.
it says little about the actual care of them. it just tells you all about them as wild creatures, then says... don't let it get warmer then 75 degrees, and feed small food items. any kind of subrstrate will work.
I'm looking for temp ranges, humidity ranges, do they use hides(coarse they do) what are preferred? should i offer things to climb? i need info on captive setup...
for instance should there be a small computer fan, to increase air circualation, since they don't really have lungs at all.

Katie,
Salamanders are amphibians, not reptiles.
As for the red-backed salamander, food items }should be: <u>pin-head crickets,small eartworms,fruit flies, pill bugs, slugs, snails, blackworms,and waxworms.</u>}
Temps should be in the high 60`s. Keep a high humidity by misting the tank twice a day. Also live moss works well in keeping high humidity.
Slabs of bark or shale would be fine hides. But I would keep the substrate loose, like the coconut fiber you currently are using.
Keep a very shallow and small dish of water if the tank gets too dry. If you are worried about them trapped in the dish put a clump of java moss in the water.
Moss covered logs and rocks are welcomed by them and provide hides and are attractive at the same time.
You can keep them cool by putting them in a basement or using a tank cooler.

Hope this helps!

Information on foods and setups are found in the Articles section:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/articles.shtml
Since most of this information is true for ALL salamanders, it isn't repeated in every caresheet. The FAQ may also be useful.

The P. cinereus caresheet says "Ideally, these salamanders should be kept at 60-68 oF / 15-20 oC (reduced to mid 50s oF / 8-12 oC in winter for proper cycling)... all efforts should be made to keep their tanks from reaching 75 oF+ / 24 oC+."

The sheet also says "hiding places in the form of dead leaves, cork bark, bits of dead wood, etc." Good grief, how much more specific does it need to be??? Please go back and re-read it.

(Message edited by jennewt on April 23, 2006)

Yes, that caresheet contains an answer for every question you posted.

First off. amphibians are reptiles. the familiy reptilia includes salamanders.
I am looking for very detailed information.apparently this isn't the place to look for it.
For instance,studies show they prefer termites??? is there going to adverse effects by giving them crickets as a subsititute? or should i feed them small grubs and such instead. would cockroach nymphs (d. latteralis) be okay?
how toxic is the species???
further, why would i give them a water dish, they don't enter water.
i don't mean to be a jerk about all this, its just that, i'm trying to take care of them, causing them the least amount of stress, hell they are still homing for their hole outside... (where i got them from)

I have them in a 5 1/2 gallon tank. With a wedged log i got from petsmart.I have coconut fiber, topped with loose moss. the average temp is 66 degrees.
but that is all i have in there. should ik add anything else.

also, how do they drink water... or do they just absorb it from the area around them?

Amphibians are NOT reptiles. Reptiles include turtles, snakes, lizards, but most definitely not salamanders.

By the way, reptilia is a class, not a family. And newt/salamander belong to order Caudata (that is why this site is named after), class Amphibia. And then both Reptilia, Amphibia, Aves (bird), Mammalia (mammals) and many classes of fish belong to Phylum Chordata.

So Salamander is not in Reptilia. Whoever told you this must have little understanding of Salamander. Reptile has scales and lay egg with shell, like a chicken egg. Amphibian does not have scales and lay egg that is similar to fish. Amphibian also mostly hatch as a larvae and then metamorphs; reptile does not do that. And Salamanders share the amphibian features but not the reptile features.

I believe they dont drink, they absord water vapour and maybe occasionally do a bath in the water dish. I am not that much of a terrestrial salamander keeper, I only keeping terrestrail newt morphs. So maybe someone else may answer your question about the water dish.

(Message edited by achiinto on April 24, 2006)

Hi Katie - so you’re new to salamanders and this site? I can sense you are frustrated. You will find all the information you need to care for your new little fellows on the site, but as suggested, you'll find the information in different areas, because much of the same information is transferable and applicable to all salamanders, not just the specific type you have...which, yours are terrestrial instead of aquatic or semi-aquatic. To help answer your questions:

Your set-up sounds fine, 2 red-backs should be able to live in your 5 1/2 gallon aquarium - its more important to have linear inches...8" x 12" or more...more may be more 'fun' for the sallies. Coco fiber substrate is good. I like 4 to 5 inches. The substrate should be kept moist but not wet and changed every 6 weeks or so. Misting frequently helps with humidity and keeping a small water dish in the enclosure helps. Salamanders have very sensitive skin - I like to use distilled water/bottled spring water for my terrestrials to mist and place in their water dish. My Easter Tigers will occasional take a dip in their water dish - I don't believe red-backs like water that much. Your 66 degree temp is good. Don't know how big your wedge log is, but may want to consider placing smaller pieces of wood or slabs of rock in your enclosure. That way, each sal has his own hiding place. Since the two were found together, they will probably not be territorial - this is more a concern if you were to place other red-backs in the same enclosure. For the sals, you do not need anything additional in your set-up. For you and aesthetics, if the container were larger you could consider plants and other more decorative, yet natural, additions.

Regarding feeding, they should do well on earthworms and crickets. Earthworms (night crawlers specifically) are an excellent food source for salamanders. See article in the articles section of this site for how to cut these up for smaller salamanders - or use tiny earthworms. Crickets are also good, but these should be gut-loaded or dusted with a calcium supplement. For terrestrials, feeding 2-3 times a week (as much as they will eat at one time) is optimal. I don't know about red-backed specifically, but with my tigers, I have to keep a check on their feeding as they are 'pigs' and tend to get fat. If you want to feed termites and other suggested insects/worms, that is ok, but the above diet is good as a staple - of course, sals like treats of something different now and then (don't we all!). Caution, be careful of insects/larvae with powerful jaws - they can hurt the salamanders. It is suggested to cut off their heads before feeding...I don't know where termites would fall in this category.

You cannot assume that you have a male and female because you found them together. Regarding sexing, it isn’t that easy. See the article on red-backs for sexing information. Males have a gland under their chin that becomes more obvious during mating season, etc.

Sals do not drink water per se. They get their water from their prey and absorb thru their skin from their environment.

If you are used to reptiles, try not to be disappointed with your sals. Terrestrial sals spend most of their time underground where you can't see them. As they are nocturnal, they may come out at night.

Good luck with your red-backs.

OK, Katie, now you ARE asking questions that aren't answered on the caresheet. And people are happy to answer those. Jan gave a ton of excellent advice.

Crickets are a good substitute for termites, but be sure to dust them with a vitamin/mineral powder (you probably know this from your reptile experience). Roach nymphs are another excellent food. Small woodlice (pill bugs) are another good food you might have locally.

In addition to the moss, I would suggest adding leaves, bark, or stones they can get under. To feel secure, sals need a roof over their heads.

One of the plus points to redbacks is that they can be fed wingless fruitflies which are easy to culture.
And as a further point, P. cinereus will forage via scent and will take freshly dead prey items such as frozen thawed fruit flies. This would also probably extend to frozen thawed pinhead crickets.
When evaluating food items for this species, they prefer to feed on calorically denser prey items than less calorically dense prey items (in this case termites vs ants) and the vast majority of readily available feeder insects are in the calorically denser food class.
If they were found together in the same spot under the cover object, then they may be a pair. If they were from different sections of the cover object then they may not be a pair and keeping them together may be putting one of the them at risk of bite wounds.

Ed

okay, other questions.
the "male" or "smaller" one has these two white spots on his back, i don't know where they came from but they've been there ever since i got a good look at them the first day. scars? infection??? i don't know. it is smooth to ht body... not fuzzy.
Oh, and what about formic acid??? Most "reptiles" that eat ants/termites need a certain amount of formic acid. Should i worry about this?


(Message edited by dow on April 25, 2006)

The ant eating animal needing formic acid thing is for the most part a hoax.

Ed

It's hard to tell in the photo, but do they look like they could be scars?