Question for newt people?

What do you think of this experiment? I am going to attempt to add another female to the mix in my 20gal tank of a male and female Notophthalmus v.v.----up to now it's just been Stanley and Santa's lil Helper, and last year, although there was a lot of amplexing, there were no eggs, but the year before there Santa's Helper laid many many eggs. It appears that Stanley is getting frustrated right now, keeps bugging S's Lil H to no avail, so....perhaps having one more female in there will not only help Stanley's chance at getting lucky, BUT ALSO maybe change Santa's attitude, hmm.......so today I will go pond-hunting and will report my findings.....! Has anyone else noticed there being a difference in newt mating behavior depending on who/how many of what genders are in the tank?

Well. anyhow, my comment on this is that hunting for newt in the wild is not helping the ecosystem at all. Why not get a newt from a breeder?

In her area of the US, Notos are thick as flies. Taking one from the wild will not harm the population whatsoever.

Leanne, I think it's better to have the 1.2 ratio. Your female will be less stressed because the male will split his attention between the two of them.

I agree with Ian. While taking a newt from the wild may not hurt the population or ecosystem of the area, why remove a newt from its already familiar surroundings if it's not necessary? There are so many newts that are bred and grow in captivity, it's not really necessary to take one from its natural home.

cb notos are rarer than hen's teeth ( http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060223083601.htm ). since she is trying to get some to start a captive breeding program, then she may serve as more of a balm to the WC woes.

i agree with a higher female to male ratio, males will hound down females and some occasionally drown them in amplectic fervor. you only need 1 male (as long as hes fertile) to get results.

Thanks for the input, guys---actually, the eggs that would be (hopefully) produced will be tended to by me, and then I will turn the developed larvae loose back into the pond. This pond was flooded twice in the last 2 years because of the hurricanes, and washed out many newts. The larvae and eggs of the newts that do remain are often eaten by the other creatures in the pond that have survived the floods, and the dogs that swim in the pond also eat them for a little snack (weird, but true---I would think those eggs and larvae would taste bad to a dog)

Thanks Joan and Paris for your insight into the success of this female to male ratio!

Hi Leanne,

If you keep other species of fish, reptiles or amphibians that are not native your area then I would strongly suggest that the larva, egg or even the adults not be released back into the enviroment. There is too much of a risk of introducing a novel pathogen or parasite into the local ecosystem. (this has happened in several places in the world with the worst to date being the global spread of chytrid from Xenopus). While this is something that feels like you may be helping the local animals, there is a excellant risk that you may be doing the exact opposite.
Not only that but you should check with your Department of Natural Resources or its equivalent to make sure that you are legally able to do so.
If you want to make a positive impact for N.v.v, sending out cb eggs and larva to decrease or even eliminate collections would help even more..


Ed

Ed, I keep no other species of any kind in the tank that I house the newts in, and of course the N.v.v. are native to this environment and to the pond. I also use the same spring-fed water as in their pond, so hopefully there will be no danger of any foreign pathogens contaminating the pond when I do release the larvae. I will definitely also take your advice on calling the Dept. of Natural Resources, too, thanks for that tip.

Well, my next question is, when are N.v.v. females sexually mature? The one I happened to catch doesn't have her red spots and doesn't appear to be gravid, either, but what do you think? Here are 2 photos of her, a photo of Santa, who is definitely gravid, and a photo of both of them together for size comparison. Maybe this is actually an immature male?









(Message edited by tadpole on February 27, 2006)

Hum.... I think release house-breed animals to the wild without correct estimation of the outcome to the ecosystem is also not very environmental friendly.

is that the same sub species? as for age-i have had 1 year old broken stripes breed.

ian, yeah thats what ed is saying too. infact it may be illegal. i was contacted by an elementary school teacher who wanted to know what were the best frog taddies to buy, raise up, and then release. he was very disappointed when i told him it wasnt allowed. according to my local DOW guys, you could keep something local a week or so for observation w/o getting into trouble, but raising up LTC animals then releasing them is not allowed, and releasing non natives is illegal. its a sad but important decision, since many kids will not know what i knew as a child from this experience.

I ended up talking to the DNR just now; they said that since the pond was on private property (the campground), which is composed of 6 acres owned by our employer for over 15 years, that if I just took and then re-released the animals from and to the pond, that it would be technically legal.

Paris, it is the same subspecies as far as I know---they look a little different when they first mature, which is, the more I think about it, why I should find another specimen, one that is obviously gravid.

Hi Leanne,

I was referring to you keeping any other species at all and was not referring to simply the same tank.
Release and repatriation has come under closer and closer scrutiny because of the documentation of more and more transfer and translocation of novel pathogens.
To use the example I cited above, chytrid is very prevelent in the pet trade and has been shown to use ambystomids (as an example) as a carrier (one of the potential vectors that is now being examined for the widespread dispersal in Australia are axolotls). All it can take to transfer the pathogen is a splash of water, the mist from an nearby airstone, the use of the same tool, bucket or other container, or even the failure to wash your hands between cages. This transfer can result in another pathogen that could cause further massive losses of animals like is occuring with chytrid (global mass extinction of amphibians up to 100% of amphibians in some locations particularly of montane species)
At this time, institutions that are looking to release or repatriate animals use a room that is dedicated to that animal and there are foot baths and other disinfection regimens that are used before entering or leaving the room.

I again suggest that you reconsider any release of any animals that have been kept in captivity...

Ed

Ok---I see what you're saying, Ed. I won't release them into the pond again, I guess. Does that newt look like a different subspecies, the one Paris is referring to that I just caught?

I think your female is just a color variant that lacks spots. Interesting (!), but if you got it in the same pond, it's not a different subspecies. I'm pretty sure she is mature, but whether she is gravid or not is impossible to predict. They sometimes lay eggs even when they don't look obviously gravid.

Woah, excellent! I acted too soon, though, and got worried that it was a subspecies and I shouldn't be housing it with the other N.v.v.s, so I had just now let her go back into the pond, and THEN read your post....DANG. Well, it's neat that there exists that color variant in the eastern newt---thanks for your help