Lesser Sirens Legal in Illinois?!?!?!?!

I live in Illinois and recently a month ago acquired 3 lesser sirens through a grab a bag surprise auction that i won on aquabid online auction :-/ (along with a bullfrog tadpole and mud mask turtle)

however I'm getting mixed stories about lesser sirens being legal and illegal to keep in Illinois!

the source for the legal and illegal are just merely from 2 different stores! as I do not want to keep those magificent creatures as I know they're neat looking but they're not just my niche. I already have 4 firebelly toads which I would like to keep in the 20g. tank and I do not have bigger tank for them once htey get bigger- they're currently guarantined in a separate 10 g. tank with 2x weekly 50% water changes as they're sharing their home

the illegal response was: let them go in your creek and they'll do fine

I'm like its illegal to let go any animals that weren't caught in the first place!?!??!?!

What I have is junivies judging from pictures 7-10 inches long and really chowing down on variety of foods i'm offering them bloodworms, wax worms, red worms, little guppies

I just stumbled upon this website as there is not that much information about Lesser sirens being legal in illinois or whatnot-

LOST IN LEGAL-MUMBO-JUMO-POLIS!

any help would be really appericated- I wouldn't mind recovering the lost monetary value as teh crayfish that was shipped in with those were GOBBLED UP by those critters haha they were baby crays- I shelled out 140 including shipping for those creatures *dumb me* really can't recover my loses as it was surprise auction after all!

p.s. the guy i purchased this from is a member of this site- from what others were saying about him saying he sells captive caught spcimens while he says he breeds them- I think he was being honest as the turtle is just merely a hatchling and cute, and those sirens are pretty young to be caught? if they're easy to catch or not?

however HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Message edited by Kai Onca on December 25, 2006)

Since the sirens are with you now, I'd say don't worry about the legal mumbo-jumbo. You absolutely cannot release them locally, so you have no choice but to keep them. US animal authorities don't go knocking on doors looking for illegal amphibians (and probably wouldn't know what a siren is if they saw one).

Are you saying you would like to re-sell them? In that case, you need to contact local authorities (like the Fish and Game Commission, or similar) and ask. Do not trust what anyone at a pet shop tells you, they usually have no clue, or half a clue at best.

The other legal issue here is whether the guy selling these has a permit to sell local wildlife commercially (ugh). It depends on his state laws.

7-10 inches is really too large to be considered "babies". I imagine the guy who sells them gets them from outdoor ponds. I suppose they could be "farmed" in some sense, but almost certainly are not captive bred.

I'm learning more and more about them everyday they're cool creatures. I will not sell them but I think if its okay if I trade them for something else as I do not have the space for them when they get bigger as I did research that they will need bigger than a mere 20g long tank will provide and that is already housed with firebelly toads? In the long run its better if I found a different home for them?

Yes, they will need a larger tank. If you have all 3 of them in one 20-long right now, they are already overcrowded. Until you can get them moved out, be sure to monitor ammonia level and do frequent partial water changes. If it is going to take more than a few days to get them moved out, I'd recommend setting them up in a large plastic tub with secure lid and airation.

I would definately not recommend keeping them together with FBT. Live frogs are probably part of the siren's natural diet. Mixing species (even various fish) in an aquarium is something that must be approached with a lot of thought and care. See:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml

I do not have them with the frogs but thats my biggest tank right now. They are by themselves in a 10g tank as this was part of an auction of inverts its obvious that those are not inverts

but I'm waiting for my thread to trade them away to be approved as it seems that the people who frequent this site knows their salamanders and they will defintely go into a good home

I'm watching the water toxin level and just separated the common musk turtle- he could have been their food too as hes only the same size as a quarter since you mentioned the frogs being their natural food source too. I think hes even illegal to sell at this size too as it was with this surprise auction

Edited by Ester: Adds only in this section please: http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24563/24563.html?1167317412


(Message edited by ester on December 28, 2006)

Your story of your lesser sirens sounds rather strange. What state did they come from? They can range in size depending on where they originated, this is dependent on what supspecies of lesser siren you have aquired.

they guy who shipped crays with the sirens, especially if they crays were meant to be a pet sounds like a horrible mistake. I would suggest NEVER buying from this person again. Also, asking from the stores will probably not get you a direct answer. I will do reasearchon their status, I work at the Shedd so maybe someone there can give some advice when I go in next week.

I just cannot wrap my mind arround you getting these guys in grabbag of inverts. The person you brought this from sounds very seedy individual. Poor lesser sirens. Its like if you won a dog in an auction and someone gave you a bonus cat with a few mice in the same bag together, some people need to review their ethics (not you, the seller) Who ever told you to let them go in a stream is also a moron!!! I find you story very strange seeming i hardly see any turtles and tadpoles let alone sirens for trade on aquabid.

Something tells me there needs to be better laws about terpins and amphibians in this country.

(Message edited by mantighoul on December 28, 2006)
Edited by Ester: Adds only in this section please: http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24563/24563.html?1167317412

(Message edited by ester on December 28, 2006)

This story is kind of strange. The person who gave them away doesn't seem to really care about the animal's welfare. Most people that I know have never even heard of them, let alone how to take care of them.

Good luck finding them new home for those guys though, they are very fascinating creatures indeed. Someone on this site is probably itching to get one!

I would also worry more about their welfare and getting them with an individual who knows how to care for them rather than personal gain of shrimp or fish. If they seller who you aquired these from also violated law I would prosecute to the fullest extent of the law IF a law was violated. Irressponsible animal trafficers need to be taken off the streets. One thing that saddens me more than anything are wild-caught animals being wontonly taken out of their enviroment strictly for profit or tossed aside with no reguard of it being a living creature but some sort of "thing" that was "put here to be exploited by man kind". BAH!. This is how animals become endangered and extinct. Not only that, it disrupts the local ecosystem if many are removed.