C.e.e parasite (?) problem

Problem here with a new Cynops ensicauda ensicauda. I acquired my first-ever batch several days ago, having only kept C.e.popei until now.



The wound wasn't evident when I got it, though there were a couple of others that came into the shop at the same time that I didn't get because they seemed to have parasites (suspicious bumps under their skin!).

At first, it looked like a bite or scrape that had become infected. The first pic doesn't show it, but from the side that's fungal fuzz.

I lightly applied hydrogen peroxide by Q-tip to the fuzz and put the newt into fresh water after about 5 seconds.

Then, I was surprised to see a tiny, thin light-colored worm swimming furiously at the top of the water, which had to have come from the newt (and probably the wound). I scooped up the worm up in a plastic cup, and it died a minute or so later, sinking to the bottom of the cup (sorry but it's too small to photograph). Definitely not a tubifex worm .

The effect of the peroxide treatment and the newt's swimming around afterward caused the fuzzy-covered skin to loosen to reveal red flesh beneath the flap of skin.



So this all leads me to have a number of questions:

* is anybody familiar with a quick-swimming tiny worm like this? can worms of this sort indeed cause wounds like this?

* would it be better to keep the newt in water or on a moist substrate until the wound heals? (it now seems more comfortable outside the water...)



* i don't intend to use any more peroxide on this poor critter, but what could I use instead that is easy on the newt but effective? anything that would probably be available from a vet in Japan that normally treats dogs/cats? i know of no herp vets...

* is salt or soil treatment applicable in cases like this?

* i am now quite worried about parasite infestation among the rest of my C.e.e (and there are quite a few of them!) -- what, if anything, could I possibly get to de-worm them?

Certainly don't expect answers to all these questions but any help would be greatly appreciated!

Oops...those pics should have been posted in reverse order.

Another question would be whether it would be better to leave the loose skin flap as is to promote the healing, or whether it would be necessary to clip it...

OK, here's a pic of the worm, though when it was swimming it was much longer and seemed thinner.

On second thought, I think I'll leave the flap be as it's open now and perhaps exposure to the air will help heal it up.



The wound itself looks pretty clean. I'll keep it for now in this small plastic container with only a little water until I hear any better.

Tim, that's a pretty big nasty. In my opinion, it definitely came from the newt. As to what it is, I'm unsure. My main guess would be a fluke or a trematode. I think this is one for Ed K though! The only thing I am familiar with that is like that is anchor worm, but it doesn't have the same characteristics - it does't stay completely under the skin. Heaven knows what you can find in the wild in Japan though.

Good luck.

It sure is! I wonder if only this one worm could have been the cause all on its own. Where there's one, there's probably more...

I read most WC newts normally carry any number of parasites, which don't necessarily lead to major problems. Yeah, I doubt there's much info out there on Okinawan parasites...

On the advice of a Japanese newtkeeper, I used a Q-tip to swab the wound with povidone isodine solution (normally used for gargling) to disinfect it, gently rinsed the wound with drops of water for a few seconds, and then applied a thin coat of antibiotic ointment (the English name of which I don't have with me right now). Wish I really knew what I was doing...

Didn't mention it before, but this newt also apparently has a problem in the lower lip area of its mouth, which is oddly shaped, slightly protruding in the middle. Looks like something I experienced in the past with a newly purchased P.hongkongensis (poor critters must suffer terribly during transport!).

The newt is still pretty energetic though, which is a good sign. Going to carefully inspect my other C.e.e this evening and isolate any suspected carriers. Just relieved I didn't mix any together with my precious popei!

Anybody happen to know whether there is anything safe I could use to deworm my C.e.e or as a precautionary measure?

Hi All,
I'm home sick today so I had a chance to check in with the board.
Its very hard to tell with the picture but the shape (and behavioral description)looks sort of like a nematode.
Many herps can carry very large parasite loads and show little to no symptoms from the parasites. (I saw a Phelsuma grandis once that had five different parasites encysted in various organs. It only had about half of one lung functioning due to pentastomes, and it actually died due to a abcess caused by an encysted tapeworm in the liver).
Heavy nematode loads are very common in wild caught amphibs (as are false positives in ones fed earthworms as earhtworms tend to have high levels of soil nematodes residing in their gut).
The lump may have been caused by the nematode encysting in the skin or moving around under the skin. In the first case this is usually caused by a parasite that the newt is not the end host for. In these cases the parasite encysts and waits for the newt to be eaten by the proper end host (usually bird or mammal).
In the second case it may indicate a very high parasite load. To determine this do not feed earthworms for several days but use frozen foods instead and get a fecal check on the animal. The vet should be able to give you an idea on the level of the parasite load based on the amount of eggs/larva in the fecal (usually + to +++++ is how its scaled with the more + the higher the load). The type(s) and parasite load will determine the treatment(s) required to clear up the parasites. I have seen in Ceratobatrachus death from the nematodes migrating through the various organs to escape the worming agent as well as animals that have died due to shock as the massive parasite load is killed due to improper dosing of medications.
You should be able to get the proper worming agents from a vet once the fecal has been done. (I've used panacure, Droncit, and Ivermectin safely in newts and salamanders in the past depending upon the type of parasite indicated).
Also I would be very careful with iodine treatments on amphibs as they are very sensitive to iodine toxicity. Povidine is generally more concentrated than Betadine (at least the stuff we get work is).
Ed

Fascinating stuff Ed. TKS for the insight.

Not sure my neighborhood vet (used to treating dogs and cats) would agree to do a fecal check on a newt or even know what to look for, or what it is if he found it, but it's worth a try and maybe he can order a lab check. And great timing as the newt has just offered up a fecal sample...

I'll have to figure out what panacure, Droncit, and Ivermectin are called here in Japan. The newtshop-recommended antibiotic ointment (named "Do-ru-ma-i-shin" in Japanese) I used for the wound says it uses "ko-ru-su-chin" made from Bacillus polymyxa var. colistinus and "ba-shi-to-ra-shin" made from Bacillus subtilis var. Tracy....whatever that is!

No more iodine, esp. as the wound still looks pretty clean (i.e. no fungus, no rotting). I'll keep an eye out for Betadine and ask the vet about that.

Another image of the parasite:

Hi All,
Still home sick so I get to catch up on different stuff but don't get to finish setting up my stuff for my move.
Tim, the local recomended products are antibiotics derived from the bacteria and are completly useless in dealing with parasite infections (plus they are pretty useless in dealing with bacterial infectons due to drug resistance, having been around a long time). If you do a web search under those names you will come up with the non-trade names for those drugs, if you are going to try self medicating; be very careful as an overdose of droncit or ivermectin can quickly kill the newt as well as the shock if the parasite load is too high.
Your vet's technicians should still be able to say if there is a high/med/low level of parasites in the fecals just remember to not use a fecal if you have been feeding nonfrozen foods as you will get a false positive from the nematodes (usually noninfectious to the newt) the live foods contain.
Your vet should have ready access to the above drugs as they are frequently used to treat cats/dog/horses.
Nematodes and cestodes (tapeworms) can be surprisingly large given the body size of the host. Cestodes have been known to reach lengths up to ten meters (in human infections) while I think at least one nematode (Guinea worm) that parasitizes humans can be at least 3 feet long and thick as a spaghetti noodle and crawls around under the skin moving from location to location.
Ed

Hi Ed. Thanks for the above. Sounds like you're in need of some medical advice yourself! Hope you get better soon.

By the way, I applied the antibiotic ointment to prevent infection and speed up the healing of that nasty open wound, not the get rid of parasites

But I was told by one Japanese newtkeeper today that one method occasionally used by some amphibian-keepers here is to feed them discus-burger containing a dewormer, which is sold that way here. (I also keep discus but haven't used burger with them before)

Yes, I've seen pictures of huge tapeworms removed from humans. Makes me wonder if I too am hosting uninvited guests!
Cheers
Tim

PS:: the newt in question appeared remarkably well when I last saw it this morning

Here's an update on this newt's condition. That bad wound has been healing better since I removed the newt from the water. It's been living on moss for the past several weeks. Still has an odd-shaped lip as it has had from the start so I am going to keep isolating it from the rest of the C.e.e

Almost 4 months after the original injury, the wound is totally healed and I'm thinking of reintroducing it into the tank with the others...though the odd-shaped mouth is still of some concern.