Tiger Salamander problem

Hello Everyone:
I stumbled across this forum looking for help with one of my Tiger Salamanders. Some of the other threads are similar to my own problem, but I realize all situations are unique, so here goes. I have two adult Tigers that were both purchased from Petco. The Larger one (the one with the problem) is over 13" & I have had him for 6 years. The smaller one is 9" & I have had him for 5 years. This week the bigger one has become EXTREMELY lethargic compared to his usual self. He normally moves about most of the time, going in & out of the water & vying for everyone's attention whenever possible. He also refuses to eat, when he always will eat ANYTHING I hand-feed him ANY time of the day or night. Their setup has remained the same for quite awhile & I ALWAYS get their food from the same trusted source. They primarily eat whole earthworms, but I also feed them crickets that I first allow at least 24 hours to eat gut load & drink water. I sometimes dust them with Nekton-Rep vitamin powder also. I also feed them waxworms from time to time, & they even get occasional feeder fish. He is not any fatter/skinnier than before, no marks or abnormalities in his usual shape/color/overall appearance, but he is much weaker & "sadder" than usual. I am at a loss to what could be wrong. I, of course, keep their habitat as clean as possible at all times & their handling to a minimum. Any suggestions would be greatly appriciated, as I am ready to take him to the vet if his condition does not improve. I would rather treat him myself if possible due to the cost & stress on him, but I will do whatever I have to. He is truly a member of my family & I would literally do anything to save him... His health & well-being are VERY important to us. Thanks in advance. I look forward to chatting with all of you. I've joined this forum as a member & plan on visiting frequently now that I have found it, as I am very impressed by what I have seen so far. Keep up the good work.

Hi Jeff, tigers can become lethargic like that for so many different reasons that there's likely no magic bullet that anyone here can give you. For me personally, I've found that when my Ambystoma act like that, it's usually time to change their substrate. The again, sometimes they do it and suddenly begin to eat again after a few days/weeks with nothing changing. It can be very frustrating, so I sympathize. I personally would remove him just in case to a simple setup and monitor him from there until (if) he starts eating again. A lot of vets really don't know much (if anything) about salamanders so I'm not sure how much help that would be.

Nate:
Thanks so much for the quick response... It helps put my mind at ease. I can hardly sleep worrying about him so much. This has happened to him twice before in his life, but he always snapped out of it within 3 days - right now it has been over a week. I am concerned that if I wait too long to take action, his condition will worsen in the meantime, possibly making it irreversible. I have been referred to a vet nearby (who by coincidence is the same vet I bring my rabbit to) by Ron Humbert of the Chicago Herpetological Society. He assures me he has ample experience with salamanders & other amphibians. His name is Dr. Michael Miller, at Roberts Road Animal Clinic in Palos Hills, IL. I am currently debating over whether I should wait it out some more or just go ahead & take him in. It's a tough decision that I know I am going to have to make very soon. Thanks again for your advice & sharing your own experiences, it certainly has helped us a lot.

I would wait a while before taking it to a vet - the very act of carrying it around would be highly stressful. My tiger sometimes disappears for weeks at a time. This is quite normal for this species which is not normally active year round. The advice to change the substrate is good. What substrate do you use and how often do you change it?

Hi guys, could it be hibernation?

Mike & Sam:
Thanks for the replies. I had work today & I am now home so I can go ahead & change the substrate. I doubt it has anything to do with hibernation or being dormant for the winter, I have had them 6 years now & their behavior has never changed seasonally before... Perhaps it can occur suddenly later on in life like in my situation? The thing I noticed today that really has me worried is this: he seems to have some sort of dark, brownish splotches on his whole underside, mostly under his chin & on his belly, but not really on his tail. At first it seemed like he was dirty (I have seen salamanders kept in unsanitary conditions before which cause their undersides to become stained from dragging across dirty substrate), but I do keep their tank very clean & it did not come off when I rubbed on it. Also, the other salamander has no such marks on him whatsoever. Has anyone seen or heard of anything like this before? Now I am REALLY worried that this is something incurable or that it might be too late to do anything about. Please let me know ASAP, I'm off to change the substrate right now. Thanks again to everyone for being so kind & helpful to a distressed newcomer, you are the best!

Could this be some kind of fungal infection? I now have him in a clear-bottomed carrier so i can hold it up & inspect it more closely without handling him too much. It appears to be growing on his skin, although I'm not really sure. Here is what it looks like:
Notice the little marks & spots, especially under his chin & jaw. It seems to be on his legs & digits too, but not on his back at all. This is an old pic of him when he was less than a year old to compare:

I am praying there is something I can possibly soak him in or some sort of remedy/cure like that before it's too late... As of right now I am seriously considering taking him to the Emergency Exotic Animal Hospital (likely to cost me BIG $$$, but of course that is not the issue). I wanted to refrain from subjecting him to that if possible, but I am willing to do WHATEVER it takes. Any ideas on what this could be? I've read on the net (including this site) about soaking him in a salt bath, but I don't want to cause more harm... How about something like Methylene Blue or Malachite Green, which I know are useful for aquatic fish fungi? Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appriciated. Thanks.

Mike:
I forgot to answer your question about the substrate... The only thing I have changed about their tank in the last 3 years is the addition of a top layer of Tetra Terrarium Moss (which I believe is sphagnum) about 6-8 months ago. This is the stuff:
http://www.petsmart.com/products/product_11694.shtml
I wash or change it before it becomes soiled, and clean the whole tank whenever needed, usually every 2-3 months. Could the moss possibly have something to do with this?

I heard sphagnum is too acidic for caudates and shouldn't be used. Top soil which is free of pesticides and fertilizers is good, not potting soil though. You can bake the soil b4 using it for substrate to remove possible parasites and other baddies.

Some sphagnum is too acidic for salamanders and can cause illness or death (the pH of sphagnum and peat moss varies from batch to batch). Another possible consideration is chytrid infections which will need a skin biopsy to determine if this is the cause. I would recommend moving the salamander to a neutral clean substrate until it gets better or you can get it to a vet (check the ARAV website for a herp vet near you). Until then move it to a plastic shoebox with a moistened unbleached paper towel substrate. Depending upon the temperature the towels may need to be replaced anywhere from every other day to once a week (this latter one occurs about 45 F).
This will help if the problem is caused by the substrate.
Ed