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Salamander larvae question

M

matthew

Guest
Hi again all,

Doing the rounds in Salamandra city ie my garage I was also checking for larvae this morning - a few terrestris new to the world. However, one has two heads!!! So questions...
*How common is this?
*What is the prognosis? Is it likely to live?
*What are the ethics for me as a pet-owner? Would it be better for the animal if it did not live?
Cheers for your ideas,
Matt.
PS
Thought at first it was a rather weak little indivual but seems to be taking whiteworm o.k. From both heads... The tragic-yet-wow factor makes me feel a bit uncomfortable...
 
A

alan

Guest
Hi matt.
Any pics?
I think it's unusual for both heads to feed, one is usually dominant over the other. I have seen a two-headed snake which lived to a ripe old age, but one of the heads was mostly ornamental and didn't do much.
 
M

matthew

Guest
Cheers for reply Alan. Not been here for a while!
I thought of snake photos I've seen too... wondering if you saw the real thing.

Sounds like it could be a runner then, it is biologically viable, perhaps???

The eating thing is interesting. I said "seems" coz one head swallowed, then the other was pushing at the food, but I guess attention and ingesting are two different processes.

I will re-double my efforts to get digital-cam-ed up... been meaning to get snaps of my animals up here for ages.

Back to the specific topic - what fascinates me is where the "split" is. It look likes each of the two front legs 'belongs' to one of the two head / the neck.

Strange world, is it not?
 
A

alan

Guest
"Cheers for reply Alan. Not been here for a while!
I thought of snake photos I've seen too... wondering if you saw the real thing."
Yes, I was wondering where you were :)
yes, I saw the real thing at the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco. It was very old and I think has subsequently died.

"I will re-double my efforts to get digital-cam-ed up... been meaning to get snaps of my animals up here for ages. "

Ebay! Good time post-Christmas!
 
N

newtmother

Guest
I had a two headed calf that lived for four years. I Do not see why a newt couldn't.
 
M

matthew

Guest
On a plus note was chatting at the gym this a.m. to a biology postgrad who suggested a mechanism for this... apparently there are proteins that code for head and tail at two ends of the early ball of cells (blastosphere??? blastocyte???); if you get too many proteins of one sort congregating at the head end, you can get two-headed offspring.
On a negative, more significant note, don't think it is much longer for this world, as the Victorians put it. All does not seem to go well. I noticed one front leg is no longer moving and seems a little pale. Also, one eye lens seems very, very slightly cloudy (fungal infection?). Finally, no longer interested in food (unless just full).
Drat, bother, darn. What a shame. I'm surrounded by dozens of glowingly healthy, ravenous terrestris, galliaca and fastuosa larvae, eating me out of house and home, but the one special little life you really hope the best for seems to be going nowhere fast. Drat.
 
J

joan

Guest
If it does kick the bucket (as the americans put it), preserve it! Get a small jar and some alcohol. If anything, it's a good conversation starter. And I bet Paris would like to get her hands on it!
 
M

matthew

Guest
Will do.
There ARE small wispy cotton-like growths on non-moving front limb.
For now, have got it in a small glass quarantine tank & have waded in with 50% strength Interpet anti-fungal fish treatment, figuring nothing to lose. Oh come on my little freaky friend!!!
 
M

matthew

Guest
Sad to tell, I'm afraid the bucket was kicked and he is now an-ex larvae.
Can't help but think it was the best outcome for what was a very fragile looking specimen, even without the two-heads-thing...
He / she has now been pickled for posterity.
Also can't help but wonder what it would have looked like as an adult - today's London Metro newspaper has a picture of a two-headed adult rat snake that has been sold for $86,000! Would have liked someone in the know to tell me how much or less rarer such an abnormality is among sals / amphibs compared to say reptiles or other creatures...
 
J

joseph

Guest
When you get your digital camera up post photos of t the little bugger. I wonder if anyone would be interested in this thing for study?
 
M

matthew

Guest
Not wanting to part with it - though curious about cause of the... ermmm... situation - but when I do get a camera I'll show you!
 
A

alan

Guest
You guys are definitely weird ...
happy.gif
 
J

joan

Guest
I've heard multiple accounts of 2-headed snakes, and saw one guy with a collection of multiple-headed turtles (he had like 20 of them), one having 3 heads and 6 legs or something. It was weird. I wonder how rare this really is in herpetology? or if it's more common than in say fish or mammals?

But I'd definately be interested in pics of the little guy.
 
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