McGloop (t.grans) might be sick... Questions?

I'm sorry to be bothering you guys again. I feel like an overly worried mother these days. My t.grans, McGloop has become very pale and is pretty much shedding constantly. His appetite isn't what it was, eating once every 4 days or so and only taking a couple of bites of bloodworms. McGloop has spent alot of time in a hollowed out cave in a piece of driftwood in the tank. He used to do this before shedding. I didn't see him for 2 or 3 days and then he'd finally come out and be all stained dark with tanin. He'd shed and go back to his normal color. Lately, he has not been doing this and he seems to be shedding constantly, eating very little and his color is washed out, very pale. I wasn't particularly worried until he started to look thinner to me and I discovered a nitrate spike in the 20L a couple of days ago. I performed 100% water change, which I do once or twice a week anyhow, and will change the water again tomorrow. I put him and his t. grans friend, McGlop, in a larger tank several weeks ago, and though I have three filters in there, two whispers and a fluval, it's obvious to me now that it is time to just get the new filter. I have attached three pictures. I couldn't really capture the coloration of his skin right now, though I tried. Does anyone have any thoughts or advice? Is this something to worry about? Or should I just wait and see?
Thanks & take care,
Mary.







(Message edited by jennewt on August 14, 2006)

My first reaction was that you have alot of filtration and are doing way way too much water changing. Did you mean 100 percent every few days?? If so, then you are not cycling your tank at all and basically starting over with new water every week and your system is never going to balance out! I think the paleness is caused by stress from the constant changing of water. A nitrate spike is not really a cause for major concern, and in fact neccesary to establishing a healthy system.

Right now, read up on cycling, stop changing all the water, do up to 25 percent water changes, which would have been enough to drop the nitrates down anyway.

Do you really need all those filters? mabye get rid of one? remember that newts actaully survive in the great outdoors and you will need to establish a micro-ecosystem just like a pond to keep everything happy and healthy.

Thanks so much, Jeff! I also keep fish and know a bit about cycling. They have been in my care since February and were in a 10 gallon tank. I just upgraded them because they have been growing and I wanted to give them the space to spread their wings. When I switched tanks, I simply moved over the old substrate, decorations, and filters. My understanding, perhaps erroneous, is that the majority of beneficial bacterial live in the substrate, on the decorations, and plants, as well as the filter media. So, doing a large water change will effect this very little, if at all. The reason for the frequent water changes has been the high temps here in Chicago. We don't have air conditioning and live on the top floor of a 3 floor walk up with a tar roof above us. Their tank has gotten up to 80 degrees, so I had been giving them a couple of complete w/c a week to give them water at the temp they need.

Oh, and the reason for 3 filters is that I had two in the old tank and their tank went through a mini cycle when I moved them over much to my surprise since I used all of their current stuff including some of the water from the old tank. So, I added the third. I have been waiting until September to get a filter that is the appropriate size and rating for their new tank. The whispers are both 3-5 gallon, and the fluval is 1.

But I will cut back on the water changes. If you have any other suggestions with the new information, please let me know.
Take care,
Mary.

If you wanna keep the temp down in the tank, try floating ice packs in there, or try taking some water out, then putting in ice packs, and then refilling the tank with refrigerated water. Depending on how much space you have in the fridge you coudl keep a few gallons of dechlorinated water in there. Good luck!

Changing the water weekly with cold water just stresses them more, as the water doesn't stay cold for longer than a few hours. A constant temperature, even if it's on the high side, is much less stressful than constantly fluctuating temperatures.

Changing 100% of the water can cause mini-cycles, regardless of how much old tank water, substrate, decorations, and whatnot you moved. It takes time to build bacteria levels up to the appropriate level in any new tank, regardless of how well it is seeded.

Thank you Joan,
He has bloat. I just put him in a QT with some maracyn 2 which I just read may not be the best thing. Wetwebmedia recommends epsom salts. Could I still add that, or is it too late? I am going to look for an exotics vet tomorrow.

If you're still on, I'd love an answer or from anyone. I just love this little guy more than I can say.

Since bloat can be a symptom of several possible causes, it's hard to say how to treat it, it's a gamble not matter what. These articles might help:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/bloatEDK.shtml
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/salt.shtml
Recovery from bloat has happened, but it's uncommon. I sincerely wish your newt the best of luck.

I would say to remove 2 of the 3 filters. Two newts don't produce much waste, so 3 filters is excessive, even if they are small filters. The current produced by the filters could be very stressful. Adding a filter won't speed cycling much, if at all.

Yes, you did good by keeping the substrate to maintain the beneficial bacteria. But a 100% water change can still be a very stressful thing for fish or amphibians. When a tank is set up and running for a long time, even with partial water changes, some aspects of the chemistry of the tank water "drifts". For example, the pH may change gradually over time to the point where the pH may be VERY different from that in the clean water you use. So if an animal is moved abruptly from old tank water to new tank water, it may (or may not) be a serious stress to the animal. On the other hand, if you do a 100% water change every day (the "goldfish bowl" method), this is not too stressful because the water does not have time to drift - the new water is just like the old water.

You said you had a nitrate spike. Nitrate (you mean nitrate, not nitrite, right?) is not harmful. It would have to be pretty darned high before I would do anything beyond the usual 20% water changes.

Sorry Jen,
I thought I responded to you. Thanks so much. It was a definite nitrate spike NOT nitrites. I can only assume that this was brought on from the heat and the frequent and abrupt w/c. I didn't know. I floated cooler packs in there for awhile but they didn't seem to help much. I'm going to get a sponge filter for the tank tomorrow.
I'll let you know what happens.
Take care,
Mary.

I have a 4 foot tank for 4 T. grans. I have a Duetto 100 in one corner and a sponge filter in the opposite corner.

If you have high nitrates (these should slowly rise over time), try getting some plants.

He didn't make it. Thanks for all of your help. Yes, there are live plants in the tank. And both whispers were set with a waterfall effect, raining water down upon the big piece of driftwood. The small fluval was also placed behind the driftwood, spraying directly at it to minimize strong current. But I am so upset with his passing, that I am just going to scrap that set up and switch to a couple of sponge filters. I am kicking myself for ever switching their tank. I just wanted to give them more room. I don't know, I just really loved that little guy. I even took the day off today to take him to the vet. He seemed to get sick so fast and I was just grasping at straws. But thanks so much for your help everyone.
Take care,
Mary.

I'm sorry, Mary. At least his passing was rather quick and not slow and declining.