Strange Colouring in Chinese Firebelly Newt

I have 4 Chinese Firebellies which I bought from various local street vendors (I live in China currently). One of them has a very grey skin - looks granular but covers the entire body. Late at night the colour goes VERY light - almost white. It eats well and doesnt appear to be ill.

I know that some firebellies do have a slight temporary discolouration when young, but this is quite extreme. Does anybody have any ideas ? It doesnt look fungal - just odd

If you just bought them off the street from some random vendor then they could be anything. Possibly even a newt previously unknown to science. That seems extremely odd, I haven't heard of a single newt that does that, let alone a firebelly.

It's not uncommon for CFB to be a gray color. There are two photos of gray ones on the CC caresheet:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Cynops/C_orientalis.shtml
I've never heard of them becoming even lighter color at night, but it doesn't surprise me too much. Any chance of showing us a photo? Better yet, any chance you could get us a photo of the wild habitat of these newts? Everybody in the world keeps C. orientalis, but nobody has seen the habitat they come from!

i remember hearing that the "chengongensis" cyanurus changed their shade. i might have read wrong though

Hi all

Unfortunately in China most of the newts you buy are from the wild. There are no pet shops with quality control hehehe. I will definitely try to post some photos of it. A bit difficult to do with the current setup - lots of plants and a smallish tank!

The photo on the mentioned page is similar, although my newt is even lighter. I have also noticed that it gets more pronounced if the newt spends the night out of the water (possibly dry skin??). The 'whitening' however happens even if the newt spent the night in the water.

I live quite a way from the area that the newts come from, but am planning a trip there in the coming months. I will make sure to post some photos of their natural habitat. I am also planning on writing a short article about the habitat, plants and natural food.

Just out of interest - my tank has 4 firebellies, 8 guppies and a small pepper catfish in it. They all seem to be quite happy together. The newts dont pay attention to any of the fish - even when the guppies have babies. They seem to only eat bloodworms! When the newts shed their skin, the guppies usually take great joy in picking it off them to eat.

i would move the fish out, especially since it is a "smallish tank" you could get all sorts of problems, and i think i'm right in saying that peppered catfish need a tropical set up? while newts need a temperate climate.

Guppies need warmer temps than newts. Get the fish out. Also, it's possible that a newt may attack the cat fish, the catfish's spines will impail the newt if it does. Remove the fish. Newts like temperatures around 20º c if not colder, and guppies like it much warmer.

Right Will, the color change seen in orientalis is often accompanied by uncomfortably high temperatures. Perhaps you're keeping them too warm if you're able to keep them with the peppered catfish?

The guppies were initially put into the tank as food for the newts, but they have tended to ignore them. Even the baby guppies go unmolested. So I am not particularly worried about them.

The catfish is there just to clean the bottom of the tank. It is too big for them to swallow it at the moment, so not too concerned there right now. I will probably move him out when the newts get a big bigger. The problem is that you can not but undergravel filters here, so need something to eat the excess food, and to stir up the dirt for the external filter to get at.

I am moving in about a month, and will be getting a new 2000 liter tank when I do. This should be big enough to keep them all happy I think hehehe.

Water temperature is another question. I do not have any heating in the tank at all. Temperatures here in China average 30 - 40 C in summer, and as a result the water temp goes up quite a lot naturally. Temperatures in ponds around here are currently sitting at around 23C on average (taken at a depth of 15cm), and we are not even in the hottest months yet!

I live in Henan Province which forms part of the documented area where newts live naturally. So I have a lot of questions regarding previous research done. As far as I know there has not been any good modern study done on the Chinese Firebelly natural environment. This I am hoping to correct.

During my expedition to their natural habitat, I will be looking at water temp and water depth. I have a sneaky suspicion that the newts will naturally like a slightly higher summer water temp and a relatively cold winter temp.

It will be interesting to see how the natural environment relates to the experiences of long-time owners of newts.

If anyone has any questions about their natural habitat, or something they would like me to look into, I would be happy to do that as well. Just drop me an email. If anyone is interested in joining me on the expedition, you would be more than welcome!

that is interesting, i would still say temperature has a part to play in it, could they possibly be cyanurus? the other possibility i can think of is that they could be an undescribed species, but that is unlikely so i wouldn't get your hopes up.

btw, the thing which i find odd is the fact that the colour lightens at night! you would have thought that as a protection it would be lighter in the day and darker at night, that's what makes me think temperature is doing it...

a quote from Caudata Culture "For unknown reasons, some individuals of C. orientalis periodically lighten in color and the results can range from a dorsal ground color of ash-white, grey, tan, or even slightly burgundy. Often this is accompanied by the appearance of a faint orange, red, or brown dorsal stripe and darker marbling along the flanks and extending onto the tail. The bright ventral coloration remains unchanged. There does not seem to be any consistent explanation as to why this occurs and the duration varies considerably from hours to months."

still doesn't explain why it only happens at night, but it might have some relevance...

I suppose it could be cyanurus, but as it is a juvenile it would probably take a while to be sure. I am not sure of the distibution of cyanurus - maybe someone could shed some light on that?

The problem is that I live in the middle of the distribution area for orientalis, and I am pretty sure that the creatures for sale are taken straight from the wild. So chances of being another species are pretty slim unless the distribution areas overlap.

The other option is that is could be either a sub-species, or possibly have a genetic disorder (possibly pigment?).

James, I'm very happy that you will undertake some studies of C. orientalis habitat! Particularly the temperature and depth measurements. I'd like to join you, but... it's a little too far!

Since temps of about 23ºcelcius+ usually fry Cynops orientalis in captivity, perhaps they aestivate in the wild. There is often species range over lap with newts, and one thing about your is very unlike orientalis: it has granular skin, orientalis doesn't have granular skin. It would be really nice to have some photos.

James, this study was done in '93:

Yang, D. and Shen, Y. (1993) Studies on the breeding ecology of Cynops orientalis. Zoological Research 14 (3): 215-220.

In it, they found that orientalis were breeding at temps between 15-23C. If you're keeping them above 23C, it's likely not a very good idea. You'll probably need to take temperature readings at deeper than 15cm. I suppose just like newts in other warmer regions of the globe, when the temps go up orientalis simply find cooler microhabitats or leave the water completely to go underground.

i think i'm right in saying that cyanurus and orientalis don't overlap in their ranges, but they come fairly close together

I have been doing some looking around and the cyanurus range is pretty far away from here. So doesnt look likely that it could be from that species. This weekend I am going to go to the fish market and see whether I can spot any others like this one. Will report back on the results of that expedition hehehe.