Marmoratus Unken-like Reflex?

C

coen

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My Marmoratus has been "sick" for some time, he was showing little activity and his skin was dry, eyes shut most of the time.

Now he is doing better, eating again, so everything is looking good again. There is one thing though that worries me: When I pick him up for inspection, his body stiffens, he opens his mouths and keeps his hind legs close to his body. This state lasts about 30 seconds to 1 minute, then he relaxes again. It sounds like some sort of Unken-reflex, but I'm pretty sure this is not the case.

Anyone seen this behaviour? I could make a movie of it if it's needed.
 
No idea man...some caudates do the play dead trick when picked up....the stiff body could be , but the opened mouth doesn´t look like part of a defense trick...
That movie would definitely be helpful.
Let´s hope it´s nothing serious.
 
It's definatly another problem. Could be his locomotion gone bad? What causes this? Which vitamins can help/prevent this? I do give him calcium so that's not enough, plus he eats a big variety of food.

I made a movie, even though he didn't react that extremely this time (this seems to only happen when he's resting), you can clearly see there's something wrong with his locomotion system

http://www.thedigitalresource.com/files/marmoratus.wmv
 
o_o poor thing...
I´d say vitamin deficit. I know some snakes, specially the genus Thamnophis, if i remember well, get locomotion problems because of lack of a specific vitamin (ending in complete disfunction, and death). I can´t remember which one though.
Looks like it could be the reason...
I don´t know if it´s true but i read it can be solved by injecting this vitamin, if the problem is not in an advanced state.
Maybe you should just take him to a vet...
 
I agree, he is not moving normally. He seems to have limited use of his back legs. Unfortunately, I have no idea what you can do to help, if anything.
 
It looks like Metabolic Bone Disease to me after doing some research. Thanks previous owner....
 
sounds bad....:S any luck with possible cures???
i hate to see my favourite animal suffering.....
 
You can try adding vitamins to the food. But as the other ones are healthy (and have eaten the same food) I'm note sure it's a food deficiency

But I must say that i've never come across this in newts.
 
Ryan,
Unfortunately this looks very familiar my newt(T.granulosa) has had the leg tremors and has not been well. I would move fast as mine is loosing its ability to swim and is now dragging one foot behind the other (back legs) when it walks. Our newts both have the same diets. I looked your up on the caresheets. What have you found outs about MBS. Have you found any answers? I have been Googleing until my eyes are almost crossed. If you find out anything please let me know (along the terms of supplementing diet) and I will do the same for you. Just because some people have not come across it in newts does not mean it does not exist. I watched your video and went OMG that looks familiar but I never picked mine out of the water to see what it would do. But the back leg thing it is doing looks very familiar. Please keep posting on how it is doing I would hate to see it get worse. How is its walking and swimming? Are they still O.K ? Does he have trouble with his back legs in the water to? Please keep posting and Take Care.
Michelle.
 
In my experience, T. marmoratus are susceptible to MBD (or some problems resembling MBD), much more so than any other species. I can't say for sure that this is what your newt has, Coen, but for some reason marmoratus have more problems of this type than other species do.
 
Yes Jen,

I've had the same problem a couple of years ago (you could maybe find it on the forum if you do a search for my previous account) In which the marmoratus eventually stopped eating and died. Back then I had no big knowledge about diseases or curing them, and it made me stop the hobby for a long while. Now that I'm starting the hobby again, it's a big setback.

I had these marms for a month or two, so I'm pretty sure it's not my diet that was wrong, even though I don't give additional vitamins, I do give them calcium (2:1 calcium - phosphor ratio).

What stays unclear, after doing a lot of searching on the internet, is the question wether this disease is managable or even curable. I have a feeling it's in an early stage, as he was fine a month ago.

I also made a new movie this morning which shows his spastic state he's in when awakening him. The images hurt my heart:

Spastic Reaction of marmoratus with probable MBD

I hope these images illustrate the need of proper feeding and additional vitamins/minerals.

I'll keep you updated. What I know is that calcium alone is not enough. There is a need of Vitamin D3 to make the absorbtion of calcium possible. This can be done by sunlight, but not behind a window because that filters out the UV needed for the creation of D3. UV Bulbs help, but only if it's closer than 30 cm and it has to have the proper lighting spectrum.

Since Ed wrote an article about MBD, it maybe could be very helpful if he looked into this posts.
 
thats so depressing to see
cry.gif
 
In this thread a liquid calcium supplement was prescribed for bathing the newt in. I've no idea if this addresses the need for D3 which might have been the underlying problem.
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/7/67075.html

Thanks for the heads up on lighting. It looks like my flourescent doesn't have anything in the 280-315nm range. I also found this page (in spanish) with spectra for tons of models of fluorescent lights. It looks like none of them provide any light in that range either
http://aquagarden.iespana.es/fluorescentes.htm
 
I have a Zoo-Med lamp that has 5% UVB output for a year. It says it helps prevent metabolic bone disease in captive reptiles.

It was however very expensive, And it is placed in a paludarium with some aquatic phase dobrogicus. It has more land than water, would it be wise to place the marm with MBD in there?
 
I´m really sorry Coen...this things suck...but sadly it´s a part of the hobby. At least you tried your best.
 
That Video is soo sad, brought some tears to my eyes.. I am so sorry he died on you. At least you tried xxxx
 
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