Aquatic Newts?

Hi, I have been keeping 3 fire-bellied newts in a 36" tank now for over a year, so I have gained some experience in newt-keeping. However I would like to obtain some new species for my tank. It is almost completely water, with rocks and bogwood poking out for about 3-4" at the top for the newts to get some land. I do not know what species of newts that are suitable to this set-up, but I like crocodile newts especially. Any help would be very much appreciated.
Thank you,
Iain

Where are you going to put the fire bellies? Everyone here will tell you that mixing species is a bad idea, so I'm just tossing it out right now if you meant to keep the firebellies and a new species together.

yeah I am intending to keep them 2gether. I have looked up the himalayan crocodile newt and I have read that it is very aquatic.i think thats my best bet

No, Iain, Rob is right. You should NOT mix species. Tylototriton verrucosus is a mostly aquatic newt (and an excellent newt to have!). They would do well in your 36" tank, but NOT with the firebellies. There is the risk of stress, disease spread, plus the crocodile newt is MUCH bigger, and could probably eat your firebellies for lunch. Please read:
http://www.kingsnake.com/forum/treefrog/messages/4398.html
http://www.caudata.org/caudatecentral/articles/Mixing_disasters.htm
http://www.caudata.org/caudatecentral/editor/spmix.html
http://www.kingsnake.com/forum/newt/messages/4455.html

I should add that I am assuming that you have Chinese firebellies, which are small newts. If they are another type of firebelly, they might be closer in size to the crocodile newts. But still very risky to mix, I wouldn't do it.

In the last few days one of my Tylototriton verrucosus attacked its mother (the Tylototriton individual in the head animation on the Caudata.org web site actually) and has given her a badly wounded leg (she has since been reluctant to eat and has left the water - both firsts for her). I've never seen adults behave like this but they had been without food for a few weeks while I was on vacation (they had been fed very well before I left and I have never had this problem before). I hope she'll be ok - apart from the leg she appears to be healthy.

Anyway, the point of me saying this is that I think they would do a lot of damage to newts like Cynops, no matter what species (even the larger ones like ensicauda), since Cynops are pretty delicate in comparison to Tylototritons, so I would imagine a Cynops would have lost its leg to the Tylototriton. Ordinarily I would have said Tylototriton verrucosus and Cynops ensicauda would be about the only combination of mixed species that would be ok (apart from Cynops pyrrhogaster and Cynops ensicauda), since they both enjoy similar temperature ranges and conditions.

Thanks for the advice. I think i'm gonna get some Italian Alpines instead

you dont listen, do you? mixing species is bad! every caudate secretes some sort of toxin out of its skin to ward of enemies. toxin, meaning POISONOUS! even if they're the same size, they're likely to fight, or just poison each other. if you've EVER read anything on this site, its DONT MIX SPECIES!

Kaysie, no need to get hostile. Also, yes all newts do have toxin, but it's the same toxin and they are resistant to it. There is no way they could poison each other. You are correct in that it is bad to mix, you just have some of your reasoning wrong.

~Aaron

i wasnt getting hostile, but even after multiple people told him not to mix species, he still suggested it. and some newts create a lot more toxin than others (as per Heather B's article on caudatecentral). if an animal is resistant to its own toxin, its probably not resistant to a more potent mix of the same toxin. like the difference between drinking water with 1% alcohol and water with 50% alcohol. just hypothesizing, but why wouldnt it be possible for different species to poison each other?

All I can say is that I've had the bitter experience of having a stressed Paramesotriton release its toxin and poison itself...or at least that's what seems to have happened. But that was extraordinarily big newt temporarily held in 5cm of water in a confined (20cmx20cm) space.

Aaron, I wasn't aware all newts have the exact same toxin. Is tetrodotoxin present to any extent in "non-newt" sals -- like Hynobids, for example?

I should point out that Iain Hill's last post in this thread was 6 months ago so it's not exactly a current topic. By now, he's probably already learned whatever there was to learn from his experiment...

Someone will have to back me up on this, but I believe that all sals have it, but in very small quantities.

I don't remember where I've read this(maybe even caudate central), but this toxin is also found in pufferfish and is beleived to be one of the most deadly toxins found in nature.

~Aaron

Here is a quote from a draft of a future article for Caudata Central (thanks to Wes vonPapinedu):
"There have been more that 200 ‘toxins’ discovered within ‘some’ of the amphibians (frogs and toads included) explored by scientists. However, for the purpose of this discussion we’ll confine ourself to discussing the “tarichatoxin” or “tetrodotoxin” found in North American newts and similar Asian and European dirivitives. Wakely et al (1966) determined that tetrodotoxin-like substances were present in ... Taricha torosa, T. rivularis, T. garnulosa, Notophthalmus viridescens, Cynops pyrrhogaster, C. ensicaudus, Triturus vulgaris, T. cristatus, T. alpestris and T. marmoratus. ... Taricha were the most toxic and Triturus were the least toxic of those tested. Other references indicate that Paramesotriton hongkongensis has a toxin, as does Notophthalmus & paramesotriton."

Does anyone know what kind of toxin fire salamanders have? I have heard that they can actually spray it from their parotoid glands.

Last night, while moving some Cynops ensicauda adults into a new tank, one of them (the biggest among my dozens) released a foul odor -- the exact same acrid smell my nose has become sensitized to from my experience with those suspect Paramesotriton deloustali. It did this after engaging in a bit of a struggle with me to avoid being captured. It's the first time I've noticed this with my C.e!

I kinda doubt Hynobids have the same toxin (if any), especially considering they're occasionally served up as food for human consumption here in Japan! Will look into it though...

Hi Jen,
If I remember correctly Salamandra has a "cocktail" of toxins of which the predominate one is salamandrin. Yes they can spray the toxin apparently very accurately (for which I've read different ranges but posssibly close to 3 ft (@ 1 meter).
I don't think that tetrodotoxins are found in all salamanders (by which I think the statement includes Plethodontidae) as there are different secretions used as a defense (like the glutinosa complex and related species).
Ed