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Problems raising marm larvae.

G

garrison

Guest
I have been trying to raise larvae of T. marmoratus in this last month or so and I have been very unsuccessful. For some reason none of my larvae seem to make it past the striped stage where they still seem to have that strip of yolk sac on their bellies. I've seen one or two that started to develop front legs and they seemed to have died like the rest. I've been trying to feed them bbs and while I was able to see a couple eating at one point they ended up dying anyway for no particular resason.

I've read from other people's experiences that water changes aren't tolerated by larvae in this species so I've tried to keep them in the exact same water as their parents tank, only topping it off if it gets low. I'm not sure what else to do, as they have daphnia, cyclops, and bbs to eat every day. Are these foods to large? It says in caudata culture that these are all good foods to start with, but mine never really get to the point where they are "active midwater predators".

This is sort of a mess of a post but I'd like to get help asap as I have another large batch about to hatch in the next few days. Thanks.
 
K

kyle

Guest
I'm assuming you are raising the brine shrimp yourself, are you rinsing them off with freshwater before putting them in the tank? Its simple, but just an idea as far as something that might be overlooked.

The reason for them all dieing off could be something more simple like your water chemistry. It seems impossible that not even a small handfull aren't able to find any of the food being offered.

Test your water's Ammonia, Nitrate, and Nitrite content to possibly give you a clue towards the problem. Hope everything will work out with the next batch!
 
M

meghan

Guest
Gar, mine are slow to show any signs of eating as well. So far no casualties but I'm starting to wonder as well.
 
G

garrison

Guest
I've thought of a question. Does anyone have a description/pic of what these larvae look like at the time they normally begin eating? That way I can be sure that they are not getting a bunch of food that will just die before they can even eat it and foul up the water in the process. Even if someone has some alternative methods of feeding at this stage not mentioned in cc, that would be spiffy!
 
M

meghan

Guest
I was told that once the yolk sack disappears and the black stripes fade, they are ready to eat. I noticed today most have a little orange in their bellies.(brine shrimp) I'm cautiously optimistic. They are nothing like karelinii larvae when it comes to feeding so far. Karelinii larvae are voracious, these marms seem totally opposite. It's thrown me for a loop to say the least.
 
J

jennifer

Guest
As Meghan says, when the black stripes fade that's when they start to feed. I would say if one set of conditions doesn't work, try something else. I'd suggest trying to raise a few in totally clean conditions, and see if they do any better. By clean, I mean 100% water changes and clean containers every couple of days, and/or using fresh water rather than tank water. If you have some fish antibiotics sitting around, you could even try raising a few in an antibiotic solution and try to rule out the possibility of a bacterial problem.

Where do the cyclops come from? There are some reports of cyclops being carnivorous and going after very small larvae.

What have the adults been eating? The only other explanation I can think of offhand is that the larvae are weak due to a nutritional problem in the adults.

I hope you have better luck with the next batch luck, Garrison.
 
G

garrison

Guest
That's exactly what I have decided to do Jenn. I bought some extra tupperware containers the other day and I'm thinking of setting up different ones in different conditions, see what happens. The cyclops come from the parents tank and from the daphnina culture I have. The parents are fed well on earthworms, blackworms, and frozen bloodworms.
 
G

garrison

Guest
Well, I tried something different with some larvae. I put a couple in some purified water(not distilled) with no transition from the previous container and found that to work well for me. I'd read that they didn't like water changes and that a sudden change in water may stress them, but I transferred them all and some are eating now with only 1 death in quite a few days!!!

The important thing that I realized is that I may not have been rinsing my bbs as thoroughly and I should have simply out of lack of experience with them. This being the case, it would explain why the larvae would get to a certain point and then die because of the slow accumulation in the water of salt from the bbs. The other possibility is that the water quality slowly got worse from coming from the parents tank and then sitting without a water change. Either way, purified water seemed to work for them.

Thanks for the ideas guys. Sometimes I don't want to admit that the problem may be as obvious or simple as it is, but, it's important to be honest with yourself and not rule something out just because you think you're abouve a simple mistake.
 
J

jennifer

Guest
I hope that works better. I've also thought of other possible explanations for the larvae failing: first-year female, or inbreeding. I started another thread to get some input on "weaklings" coming from young females:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/8/55306.html?1142010221
Also, your pair are siblings. I wouldn't expect that to affect a large proportion of the offspring though.
 
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