Our new pet

Hi,
I just found this web site and I am hoping that someone can help me with my kids' new pet. We were camping near Estacada, Oregon and found a bunch of Salamanders. I know very little about them, but was told that they can make cool pets. I let me kids bring one home and they have named }}him Steve.
The salamander that we have is a greenish color with an orange like underbody. He is about 6 inches long. He has bright clear eyes and is very alert. He has four legs. The front legs have 4 toes and the back have 5.
He appears to "breathe"--I'm not sure how to describe, but under his chin moves and almost balloons like a frog might.
He was found in the water near the docks.
Currently, we have him in a 5 gallon fish tank by himself. I put aquatic gravel on the bottom with a large rock. The water (declorinated)}} level is about 6 inches. I added some of the water plants I found at the lake/resevoir. He seems to like his new home. He spends a lot of time on the rock out of the water.

I really want to be a responsible pet owner so any advise would be greatly appreciated.
My basic questions are as follows:
1. What kind of Salamander do I have?
2. How can I take good care of him?
3. Is it possible to "properly" handle him or should we not handle him at all?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Stephanie in Portland, Oregon USA

Please dont take ainmals out of the wild when you dont know how to care for them and dont even know what they are.

Yes people here collect wild animals but they know what they are the know that it is legal (it may be illegal where you collected yours)and the main thing they know how to care for them.

I think that this isn't fair on the salamander that you have it has lived in the wild quite happy for possibly many years and now has been taken out of its home and put into a tank and not cared for correctly how would you like that?.

Please put him back from where you found him and go to a pet shop and get a captive bred one... but firstly learn about what animal you are getting what environment and food it needs before you get it.

I am glad you came here to find out about care for this animal but it isnt fair... please put it back!

I agree that putting the animal back would be the best thing for it. However, buying a captive-bred newt is nearly impossible. Pet stores do not sell them. They got the animal while camping, so it may not be possible to take it back at this point.

I'm perplexed by the greenish color. My first guess would be Taricha, but they are brown. See:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/species/Taricha/T_granulosa.shtml

A 5-gallon tank is a bit small for a 6-inch sal. I would recommend upgrading to a 10-gallon. Be sure that the gravel is a size that cannot be swallowed. And be sure the lid is 100% escape-proof, newts can climb.

No, you shouldn't handle it, except when absolutely necessary, as this is bad for the animal. Also, if it is a Taricha, it's one of the most toxic animals known to man. For other info, read these FAQ:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/faq/faq.shtml
Also see relevant articles:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/articles.shtml

Kim,
I understand what you are saying about not taking animals out of the wild. You point is taken. But...this situation was out of my control to some degree. In my defense let me say this.
The salamander that I now have was already captive when we got him. The kids in the next camp site had caught about 6 or so. They were handling them like crazy and had them in such a small amount of water that it was pathetic.
My kids asked if we could have one and I did say yes. I knew that we would take care of it. The other kids were planning to take their "Sallies" home and their fate is somewhat questionable. I have lots of experience caring for critters and I always make it a point to find out as much as I can about our pets. I realize that many people do not value animal life, but I DO! I hadn't been home for more than an hour before I was on line trying to find out all I could.
Don't get me wrong! I am not making excuses. I just wanted you and anyone else reading this to know the whole story. I generally don't take animals out of the wild. In fact, it drives my bug loving daughter crazy that I won't let her keep every bug she finds as a pet. I always encourage her to return them to nature.
Stephanie

Jennifer,
Thank you for your information. I spent a lot of time last night online trying to find out what kind of sallie I have. Upon closer inspection and in todays natural light, I think I've decided that this salamander is more brownish than green. I saw a picture and a description of a species called "rhyacotriton cascadae". Most of the info seemed to match my sallie, but the picture wasn't quite right.
In any case, today I'm going to go to our specialty aquatic pet store and find out all I can there. I'm going to get a filtering system that will also airate the water. I read somewhere that sallies like a live prey, so I will try to get some live food for him.
I do have him in an non-escapable tank. It has a very fitted lid with a fine mesh top. He is quite the climber!
Oh, and I've infomed my kids that we WILL NOT be holding their new pet. They are really disappointed, but after I read outloud some of the articles about sallies, they seemed to understand.
They are loving watching the very active Steve swimming and climbing around the tank. He is very adorable.
Thanks again for your info.
Stephanie

Stephanie,

I didnt mean to come across that strong but i hate it when people just catch these animals that they have no idea about and think they are going to keep it..

Im glad your here and wish you luck on finding the information you need to care for him/her in the right way.

Good luck and keep us posted!

It's okay, Kim. I certainly wasn't offended, I simply wanted to explain myself. I realize I'm pathetic, but I just hate it when I feel disapproval. I'm such a people pleaser! LOL
I really do appreciate any help or information.
I'll keep you all posted as I learn about our family's newest pet.
Stephanie

PS I just spent a bunch of time (wasted or not--I'm not sure.) reading the lengthy posts started by SALLY MANDERS's post titled, "like?"
WOW! Talk about heated debate. I could see valid points made by everyone. I wish people would be SLOWER to take offense and/or ask for clarification before getting upset. Especially when communicating on the internet. Communication is so much more complicated than printed word alone. When we cannot see one another face to face or have conversation within a known context, it is all to common for MIS-communication to occur.

I could have been offended by Kim's "strong" response, but instead I accepted the validity of her opinion and took the time to clarify my position. I personally don't feel bad about having pets, but I also take it very seriously.

Not an expert or anything, but if you found it in water next to a dock, its probably NOT Rhyacotriton cascadae, probably a Taricha. If it is a Rhyacotriton, I'd return it. These are getting increasingly rare in the wild due to logging and general people-mayhem.

I finally was able to look up the link that Jennifer gave me. My computer was acting up earlier. I believe she was correct in her initial guess about what kind of Salamader I have. The picture of the Taricha Granulosa matches my Sallie perfectly. This gives me a good feeling. I'm off to the store in a few minutes to get the live food.
Stephanie

That is good. I have never kept taricha, but I am under the impression they are normally quite inactive. Should he be swimming around frantically, it may be problem with the temp. As you likely know already-the water is cold!

Btw, not to make you feel guilty, but couldn't you have simply put the animal back after taking it from the kids than taking it home?

I suppose I could have simply released him, but I didn't think of that. And truthfully, I love having interesting animals as pets so I probably would have kept it regardless. I remembered my cousin having salamanders in a kiddy pool in his backyard when I was kid. I loved them! I didn't think they were rare or endangered and/or illegal to take as pets. I know some may disagree with my decision, and that's ok.

About the activity of my sal Steve. He has settled down. He appears to be sleeping now, but he has varied in his activity. Sometimes he sits on the rock, with his head above water and at other times he is swimming around or trying to climb the sides of the tank. I wouldn't consider his movements as frantic. Compared to my hermit crabs, who have the tendancy to hide and are mostly active at night while I sleep, this salamander seems to be very active and interesting to watch. I suppose it depends on ones perspective.

The only thing I regret at this point is that I don't have any other sallys to keep him company. It would be cool to have several, but that can always come later. Do you think salamanders need to have other salamanders to be "happpy"?

By the way, I have no idea at this point whether he is a HE. My kids named him Steve without knowing the sex. After I get a digital camera, I'll take some pics and post them. Maybe someone could help me figure out if I've got a male or female.

I saw that you mentioned having hermit crabs. are they in a different tank or are they in the same tank as the salamander. if they are then I would advise you to move either parties out into a different tank since the hermits will nip at the salamander's limbs and tails and could cause infections which could kill the animal and could kill the hermits after eating the newt. another solution would be to return the salamander and get one from your petshop. at least they have been accustomed to captive life. there are more colourful species which would keep your children happy. but don't let them hold the newt(that goes with every species). I would suggest firebellies to start with. that would answer your question about keeping newts together to keep them "happy". with most fire bellies you can keep them together but not more than the size of the tank can hold. but beware paddletails they are very aggressive. If you choose to take my advise I would read up on the possible species avaliable so you know what species you are actually buying (for instance I was sold a paddle tailed newt under the name of a vietnamese fire bellied newt!!)please consider my advice which should help all parties out.

p.s. don't mix salamander species

The hermit crabs are most definitely in their own tank! And to reiterate what I've already said...I don't plan on taking back my salamander. I suppose I should have bought one from a breeder, BUT I didn't and now I have STEVE as a pet. I am doing everything possible to take good care of him, and I will continue to do so.

Steph, I'm glad you came here to get information on your new aquisition. Its a definate sign of responsibility, and is far better than what most people would do (the: "i want it and its mine and i'll keep it how i please" syndrome). You'll want to talk to Pin-pin (apples) as she's probably the biggest Taricha fanatic out there.

I don't know why everyone seems to be attacking her. First of all, she's shown that she's mature enough to handle taking care of this animal. Secondly, the reason she came here is to learn how to take care of it. How many of you, as children or adults, started in on the salamander hobby with an animal you really didn't know how to care for? While it's very important to know how to care for your animal before you get it, there has to be a starting point.

Welcome to the site, Steph, I hope we can be helpful.

She already has the animal, and I think it would be risky to return it due to possible disease introduction-just as it is illegal to take them sometimes(though they are often mass collected for sale in petstores acroos America-In CA where they are banned(which makes absolutely no sense and does nothing for the animals)) it may be illegal to release it. Possible that(apples) or someone else may have a breeding colony they could incoporate the animal into.

For companions, no the sallie will be just fine by itself-except it won't breed.

hey mike-
i got a thing against the presumed security of critter keepers-they are not escape proof! i had a black sal-who of course could climb-and he was able to get out of the gap between the lid and the base-i never knew where he went but i can guess his fate... . one solution to this i was introduced to recently-it is to glue fiberglass screen fitted to all the top of the lid and have some hang over to stick out at the bottom so that when they click together there is more in the way to prevent even fruit flies from escaping. the area around the top is cut away but glued to the edges of the 'door'.

steph-
this method of obtaining animals is very common but some frown upon it. (dont be fooled by pet shops though-~99% of their caudates are collected from the wild-and in large numbers and treated badly to boot-and the purchase of these is often a non planned event also) to be true though this is how ALOT of us learned about and to love these animals-especially as children.(even if they didnt survive) you have the advantage over my first ones by 8 years -when i first got mine from a friend (tiger sals) ,who found them while doing yard work and found them under rail road ties, i was a reptile keeper-my data on keeping them was 'oh they are easy-just keep them in a bucket and feed them worms'. i bought alot of books from pet stores and most were serious c r a p these didnt help me and i had no one to consult to ask or get tips from. the animals did die -one through heat issues (the water was 75-but the air temp was 80!) and the other through escape. you and all future keepers (intentional or those that have them come into their lives by what ever means -like the girl who was hiking in the woods and found a sal in the cuff of her pants when she got home), you have an incredible advantage of this resource here and the fact that you desire to create the ideal for the animal does speak much of character. one thing for sure one will learn from amphibs -especially the kids-is how important the environment is for the animals welfare. dirty cages = near dead/dead newts. it is often children learn of clean as a chemical sterilization process and this also can be used to teach the kids about the use of chemicals and their impact on the environment -more than one of us here has lost an animal to left over cleaning agents(bleach usually)in tanks. i often stress my micro worlds-self contained ecosystems that regulate themselves (otherwise id be cleaning waaaay too many cages!)-bio load is a concept that some learn the hard way.(ie too many in too small an area=sickness, waste build up, oxygen depletion in the water and of course the inevitable death) please feel free to ask as many questions as you like -remember though we are all individuals and we all have our opinions and ways to keep them-as well as experience levels. one of my main selling points for some of my advice is 'dont do this' because i have done it in the past and it resulted in mortality of my charges. do however read alot of what is in the caudate culture section -there are lots of little links in there with more than a few books of information-and unlike books -the data is free, written by experts and always up to date.

Kaysie> my ears are burning. Thanks.

I'm a fan(atic), although not yet a specialist. I'm "working on it..."

Stephanie, there are many Taricha owners on this forum (many even breed them.) Most of the care of Taricha though, is just good newt husbandry in general. You can look for specific details in the Caudata Culture site under the Taricha species. (http://www.caudata.org/cc/Taricha)

Please don't be discouraged by the "Like" post. That was an abnormal thread, which should have died in its infancy. However Ed's replies were very interesting and informative, which is why I hypothesize that it didn't get axed so fast.

It's kind of like a family here. We fight, sometimes we make up, and most of the time, we dream about how awesome Tarichas really are....

I have used the various critter keepers for animals ranging from leopard geckos to neonate arizona mountain kingsnakes to dwarf sirens and larval Cynops to Wyoming toads and Ateplopus zeteki and have never had an escape if the lids were clicked into place and the lips were whole.
We have used them for almost a decade at work with no problems other than they break pretty easily.

Ed

ed-
it was one of those bigger ones -but it may have been an off brand one- i remember though turning the thing over and over again (after looking for the sal) to figure out how it happened....i am notorious for dumb luck - both good and bad....ask me someday about my million to 1 odds of getting a dropped deodorant stick stuck perfectly in my toilet.......