Newbie Stuff

First things first. Hi everyone, this is my first post on this forum. I've been lurking around for a few days soaking up all the good info. I'm researching care & housing of suitable beginner-friendly newt species for a ten gallon aquarium/vivarium that I'd like to set up within a month or two. I would greatly appreciate the opinions of those with greater experience in caudate care than myself regarding my proposed setup.

I would like to have about 3 newts of either Notophthalmus viridescens, Cynops pyrrhogaster, or if at all possible C. ensicauda popei. (so pretty!) I do not plan to mix newt species nor keep any other amphibians with them (I have read the Mixing Disasters page) but I would like to try a fish/newt community tank. I know there are still potential problems when keeping different species together in small spaces, but are there any fish which are:

1) non-aggressive enough not to harm the newts,
2) quick & large enough not to get eaten by the newts,
3) have generally the same housing requirements as the newts?

I am considering a single betta male and 3-5 mollies (which seem to be compatible with each other, barring individual personality clashes) I plan to have a backup tank ready to move the fish into at the first sign of any aggression between the fish & newts. I'd really like to keep them together, I've always liked aquaria that simulate ecosystems, but I won't put my preferences over the animals' health.

I also intend to set up a stable population of plants and food organisms in the tank before I acquire the newts & fish. The food-critters would include daphnia & other tiny crustaceans, blackworms & various planaria (small non-parasitic flatworms which would also help keep the tank clean by consuming the newts' leftovers). The plants would be anacharis, elodea, duckweed and/or azola & perhaps moss on a floating island of corkbark.

Does anyone see any flaws with this setup that I have overlooked?

On a side note, I would love to raise newts from eggs, and I would prefer to acquire captive bred newts rather than wild-caught, so I'll probably be posting in the wanted section as soon as I have the plants & food-creature micro-biome setup.

Hi Laura, welcome. It's great to see someone checking these things out before setting up the tank! I had a bad incident involving a male betta attacking an adult Notophthalmus, so I'd either discard that idea or plan to watch them very closely. Mollies really need tropical temperatures, and I found them to be rather non-hardy, so that doesn't seem like a good idea. Among fish that tolerate slightly cooler temps, people have had decent results with white cloud minnows (my #1 recommendation), guppies, and zebra danios. White clouds sound boring, but look them up on Google and you may be more impressed. I love them. Freshwater shrimp are another option, though they can become newt dinner and don't live very long.

Have you located a source for any of the newt species of interest? To some extent, your choice may end up being guided by what kind you are able to get. And if you end up getting eggs or juveniles, this will further complicate setup issues.

Hi Laura, I too would NOT recommend a betta. I could tell you a few stories, but it seems from your post that you will trust our judgement. I agree with Jennifer's fish recommendations as well.

I would also recommend that if you get eggs or juvies, that you raise them before you add fish to the system. This way the newts will not become stressed in an already difficult time in their lives.

Yeah, I definitely want to be as well-informed as possible this time around. I've had troubles when I was younger with fish, anoles and amphibians due to lack of research and bad advice. I've learned from sad experience that pet stores are in it for the money, not the health and well being of the animals they sell.

Hmm.. ok, scratch the mollies. And upon further research, it looks like newt temperature requirements are a little too cold for the bettas to be comfortable anyway, so I'll probably go with fancy guppies and white clouds and put the betta in a separate warmer tank. I have considered shrimp, my only worry with them is, as you said, they can be eaten by their tank mates. Then again I am going for an ecosystem, food chain and all... I will definitely be keeping a close watch on the behavior & health of the newts & fish.

I have found mail-order sources for both N. viridescens and C. pyrrhogaster, but I'm pretty sure they're wild caught, so if I can I'd prefer to try and find some captive bred ones.

I am fascinated by the process of development in amphibians, and have only witnessed it in frogs before, so to see it in newts would be a treat. If I do manage to get eggs/juveniles I would probably either do as Ali suggested and wait to get the fish and shrimp later, or simply keep them into another tank 'till the newts are big enough to not look like food.

My two cents: White Cloud Minnows rock my world. They are surprisingly gorgeous, peaceful, do fine in cool water that newts like, have interesting displays (especially the males), and are impossible to kill, unless they are small enough to be eaten by newts, which seems likely. =D I've seen really pale, washed out ones in the store -- find bright, colorful, active specimens, if you do decide to get some (although they brighten up under good conditions). I'd recommend two males and about five females. As for Bettas, they like really warm water, and from what I understand, newts do not. That seems like a problem.

If you want any Notophthalmus viridescens, DO NOT PUT ANY FISH WITH THEM!!! They, in they're natural range purposely ADVOID AND LEAVE bodies of water with fish, minnows, etc. They will be very stressed and will most likely NOT breed. It is in the best interest of the newts not to be with ANY fish. Get firebellies instead.

First, this thread is over two years old. Second, Notos are one species that breed happily in ponds with fish. This is due to their high toxicity level, and therefore lack of predation.