California or Rough-Skinned Newt?

Hi. I used to own the Western newts in the pic below. I would like to purchase them again, but am not sure if they are considered to be California (Taricha Torosa) or Rough-skinned (Taricha Granulosa) newts. California and Rough-skinned newts both have brown on their top and orange on their bottom, but the ones below have a <u>Darker Brown</u> on top. Does anyone know which ones they are? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Johnenewt1

from that picture I can tell you nothing. I bet if its darker its a t.ganulosa. Where did you get them?

You need a pic of the eyes. If the skin directly below the eye (the 'lower eyelid' as it may be) is brown, then they're T. grans. If the lower eyelid is yellow, they're T. torosa. T. grans are MUCH more prevalent in the pet trade, so that's probably what you had.

If you're willing to wait, I'm hoping to have some captive bred ones soon (depending on your location, as some states have laws against importing native caudates and such).

If you want to purchase them, you will be limited by what you can find for sale - usually in the pet trade they are T. granulosa, so it's likely (though not absolutely sure) that is what you had. Is that a Notophthalmus in the back of the tank?

Thank you very much for the info.. Sorry for the bad pic, but it was taken about 15 years ago at my old house (hence the old-school looking TV - lol). The newts were definitely purchased at Petland Discounts, Inc. Besides Western newts, also in the tank above were Eastern newts (Notophthalmus viridescens, yes Jennifer M.) as you can see the one toward the back, right; African-clawed underwater frogs (Xenopus laevis) like the one toward the back, to the left of the heater; and red swordtail fish (Xiphorphorus helleri) as seen toward the back between the 2) fake plants. I had no idea what I was doing at age 15, as I currently would never house all of those different species together.
I'm setting up a new 30 gallon tank, and have just ordered some Japanese Fire-belly (Cynops Pyrrhogaster) young, adult newts. Joan S., I would def. be interested in purchasing a few of your Western newts if they would be around the same size as the Japanese ones I am getting (so they won't eat each other). I've seen the 2) different newts housed together in plenty of fish tanks at pet stores while I was a kid, so hopefully they will get along with each other in my tank, as well. Thanks again for all of your help.

I really do not condone housing Taricha with anything because of their massive toxicity. Anything you put in with Taricha will probably die from TTX poisoning. Just because pet shops do it doesn't mean it's okay. There are tons of pet shops who do things wrong just to save space/money.

I guess Joan will not want the precious western newts by housed in a mixed species tank. I really go against housing multiple species in one tank. There will be so many problems.

Oh, thank you for the info. I also have a couple of green cory catfish (corydoras aeneus) and chinese algae eaters (Gyrinocheilus Aymonieri) in the tank, just to keep the tank clean. Joan S., 1) Do you think the Japanese newts (Cynops Pyrrhogaster) or your Western Newts will be toxic to the fish? 2) Also, are the Japanese newts just as toxic as the Western newts? By the way, I live in Long Island, NY.

I highly doubt you have C. pyrrhoghaster, unless you got them from a breeder. 99% of the 'japanese fire bellies' sold in pet shops are C. orientalis, chinese fire bellies.

I would not keep fish (any fish, at all) in a tank with newts as all newts are toxic to varying degrees, fish see newt toes as a tasty snack, and newts often see fish as a snack, usually with deadly outcomes. The sharp spines on catfish impale newts in the throat and both die.

Fire belly newts are toxic, but not nearly as toxic as 'western' newts.

"But just how powerful are these newt toxins? Newt toxins range in severity of effect: approximately 25,000 mice (or one male university student) could be killed by the skin of the average adult Taricha granulosa."

1. Roughskin Newt (Taricha granulosa) (USA) - 25,000 mice killed

4. Japanese Firebelly Newt (Cynops pyrrhogaster); Hong Kong Warty Newt (Paramesotriton hongkongensis); Eastern or Red-spotted Eft (Notophthalmus viridescens) <2,500

Taken from http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/newt_toxins.shtml

John, I would not recommend housing newts with cory catfish, or with virtually any fish for that matter. There are two issues here, the optimal temperatures for the species, and the possibility of damage. Regarding temperature, newts will do best in the long run if they are allowed to be as cool as possible during the winter months (as far below 70F as possible indoors). Regarding possible damage, here are two quoted incidents from
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/Mixing_disasters.shtml

"health warning
Posted by Michael on June 22, 2001 at 17:56:36:
Please pass on the info that any algae eaters or others of the catfish family have spines in the fins that are deadly to anthing eating them. They lodge in the throat, piercing and ripping. I lost a dear little 10 year old Fire Belly Newt (Wayne) when I didn't know of the spines and added a small algae eater to the aquarium. Wayne died 2 days later with the fish impaling his throat. The vet could not help him. Please pass the word to pet stores and others."

"Plecos & axolotl
Posted on Sunday, 05 June, 2005 - 06:17:
I put an algae eater in the tank with my Axolotls. For a while everything was fine; however, last night I discovered small spots where the algae eater had 'sucked' on my Axolotls' tail! The skin is off and I am very worried.
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/8/37244.html?1118030284
"

(Message edited by jennewt on January 29, 2006)

Ok, so I've read up on Western newts, and decided to create their own separate tank. You were right Joan, the Firebelly newts ended up being Chinese, and not Japanese. I purchased 2) Western newts, and am trying to feed them freeze-dried tubifex worms, but they can't find the loose worms floating around the tank very well. Just out of curiosity, what do you feed your Western newts? And how do you feed it to them - on the land part, or in a shallow lid, or in the water part, etc.. Are there any frozen cubed foods out there that you can feed to them underwater? Mine seem to spend more time in the water, rather than on land. Thank you again for your help.

John

You may want to try frozen bloodworm cubes, which are pretty easy to find in petstores. A good bet for live food is blackworms; if you provide a feeding dish for the newts, you can place the blackworms in there and not have to worry so much about loose food fouling up the tank.

Mine readily eat just about anything I offer to them. Earthworm chunks are a good choice, as they're nutritious and not as messy as bloodworms or blackworms.

Feed them where-ever they spend the most time. If they spend all their time in water, feed them in the water. If they spend most of the time on land, feed them there. That's where they feel the most comfortable.

I found mine will eat more aggressively in the water. They hunt mostly by sense of smell, and this is greater in the water.

I made a terrible mistake about 8 years ago with my pleurodeles. Due to their copious waste, I wanted a bottom feeder fish. The tropical fish store recommended cory cats, small, fat, but with 3 sharp fins. Obviously the fish ended up in my newts mouth and got stuck!!! The spiney finns pierced through the newts mouth. I had to use surgical forceps and scissors to remove the fish. I then learned all the diseases fish cause (even feeder guppies) and stopped the practice altogether.

My Western Newts love to eat the Hikari Bio-Pure frozen cubed Bloodworms, but will not eat the Hikari frozen cubed Tubifex worms. Does anyone know which of the following other Hikari frozen cubed foods I should feed to them, so they can have an additional food in their diet other than the Bloodworms?:

Hikari Brine Shrimp
Hikari Mysis Shrimp
Hikari Daphnia
Hikari Krill

Also, which ones are too small for them to find? Thank you for your help.

John
(P.S.: I'm too squeamish to cut up earthworms into chunks...)