My Tank

This is the latest pics of my 50 tank, currently inhabited by 4 Cynops orientalis and 3 paramesotritons and some fishes.

You actually keep c.os with paramesotritons? For how long have you kept them together?

3 months and if you want to say they are incompatible, there has been no interaction between the 2 species at all. Not even an injury has occured. Its really cool to see a CFBN crawl over a paramesotritons head occasionally.

I was merely surprised, I did try putting c.os with c.e.es a while back but decided against it since the c.o got stressed out, nothing seriously happened apart from the c.o chasing the c.e.es around biting them(hehe). I think that was due to the c.o was used to living alone.

Paramesotriton has a nasty rumour of being aggressive(males in breeding mode mostly) but you probably are aware of that.

Good luck with them and keep us posted on how it goes. Show us some nice para/orientalis interaction pictures!

Peace

My latest paramesotriton, its colour is different from the rest. Its colour is much lighter than my other paramesotritons which are dark brown.

Hi Joel, it's a lovely tank! I have some major misgivings about putting Paramesotritons together with orientalis, but you've probably heard that before.

One other thing you should watch out for: you have some seashells in the tank. These will tend to dissolve over time, and this may increase your tank pH. I would recommend checking the pH every few weeks to make sure it does not go over 8.

I believe Paramesotriton will attack Cynops if they are smaller. Well, that is a nice tank anyways.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Jennifer Macke (Jennewt) wrote on Wednesday, March 03, 2004 - 15:59 :</font>

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I've been checking the pH for a few weeks and what I found is that the pH is stable at 7.4 so I assume that the wood must be balancing pH. Anyway the shells are perfect hiding places for the paramesotritons.

Is it possible that shells dissolve that quickly that they can increase the pH so dramatically that it could be damaging for the newts before you clean the tank, or do a complete water change for instance?

The solubility of CaCO3 is very low so the shells will not dissolve rapidly unless the pH decreases.

Adding Ca²⁺ will make CaCO₃ dissolve slower, not faster (unless the solution containing Ca²⁺ is acidic).

The equilibrium is:
CaCO₃ <=> Ca²⁺ + CO₃^2-
CO₃^2- + 2H⁺ <=> CO₂ + H₂O

CaCO3 is poorly soluble and Pin-pin is right, that adding more Ca2+ slows this process.
Just to comment on the pH, if the pH is this high the shells are dissolving, your pH is definetly too high!! This is a puffer system, which stabilizes the aquatic systes.
Normally the water is not too acidic (acid rain), but too basic by ammonia.

BTW there is an intermediate equilibrium:
CO3(2-) + H+ <=> HCO3 (-)
HCO3 (-) -H+ <=> CO2 + H2O

Uwe

2H3O(+) + CaCO3(s) <=> Ca(2+) + CO3(2-) + 2H30(+) <=> Ca(2+) + HCO3(-) + H30(+) + H2O <=> H2CO3 + 2H2O + Ca(2+) <=> 3H2O + CO2 + Ca(2+)
<=> 3H2O + CO2(g) + Ca(2+)

A quick glance at Keq for this system gives that it is driven by formation of CO2(g) by H3O(+).
A low pH will induce an apparent higher solubility
of CaCO3. High dissolved Calcium will produce a lower apparent solubility. High pCO2 will produce a lower apparent solubility.

In a basic system:
2OH(-) + CaCO3(s) <=> Ca(2+) + 2OH(-) + CO3(2-) <=>Ca(OH)2(s) + CO3(2-)

Since the solubility of Ca(OH)2 is a lot higher than that for CaCO3 the eq. above will be heavily shifted to the left.

If the shells dissolve it is due to a low pH not because of a high pH.

Around here at least we get CaCO3-precipitation, so shells in the tanks will absolutely not be a problem. It should be noted that the solubility of CaCO3 is dependent upon which crystal lattice is "chosen"(calcite/aragonite).


Because of different ions(Mg(2+), PO(4-)etc) is inhibiting the formation of pure calcite/aragonite lattices resulting in lower formation rates, also ions like Mg(2+) interact directly with CO3(2-) ions reducing the free concentration and enabling the oceans to be supersaturated with these ions(Ca(2+),CO3(2-)).


(Message edited by jesper on March 05, 2004)

(Message edited by jesper on March 05, 2004)

Hmmm...I should have paid more attention in chemistry classes it seems

Umm.. can someone sum up the discussion bout shells in laymans' terms?

If you have a sea shell that you don't care about pour a little white vinegar on it. The acid in the vinegar will dissolve some of the seashell and the bubbling will be the CO2 being given off. This an example of what is occuring in the aquarium at the low pH (although to keep Jesper happy the calcium is being bound up as calcium acetate) although the vinegar causes the reaction to occur much more quickly than what occurs in the aquarium.
There is a flaw to the sea shell used as a buffer theory in the long run which is if the system is high in phosphate. Calcium phosphate will use the calcium carbonate as a seed crystal to precipitate out of solution. Calcium phosphate is pretty insoluable under the conditions found in most aquaria so the buffering ability of the shells will decrease over time.
If you are running a filter that contains carbon on this system to a large extent the pH lowering materials such as humic and tannic acids leached by the wood would be removed before they would have much chance to interact with the shells.
Some comments
Ed

Sorry, it means the shells will dissolve only if you have a low pH.

Pin-pin posted the essence of what I posted. I just wanted to sum up the situation, since Uwe said that you had a too high pH if the shells are dissolving. I am pretty sure Uwe meant low though right Uwe?

Hmmm...
Ed... so does that mean that crushed shells in a filter could actually be used to help control Phosphorous levels in the tank?

Keegan