Cynops ensicauda, what ssp?

Hello!
I got these Cynops ensicauda a couple of months ago and I'm a bit confused about what subspecies they are. I bought them at the same time, which usually means that they are the same subspecies, however the male has yellow markings on his back while the females don't...


The male


One of the females


The male and one female

What ssp. do you think it is?

Regards
Rickard

C. e. ensicauda. They often still have fine dusting of yellow/gold.}

I agree with Nate about the subspecies. That female is a really nice one! It's rare to see so much orange.

Thanks for the comments!

Went to the pet store today to get two more males. One of them turned out to be a female, but since the coloration of that one was very nice (lots of orange) i'll keep it. Pictures are coming soon

Here is a picture of the new female(?).

Judging from the lack of orange coloration on the belly of that one in the first pic, I'd guess it's captive-bred. Is that the case?

I don't know, but judging from the price(about 10$) at the pet store i would think that they are WC.

I have two WC C. e. nominates that have yellow bellies, not orange. So I think that yellow is not uncommon as a "natural" belly color.

These have been flooding the Swedish market the last year. They are imported from Hongkong and they are WC and, of course, collected in Japan.
I've been in contact with the company who imports them and to my big surprise these people seem to know what they are doing. The newts seem really healthy and are kept only with their own species.
The sad part is that in many pet shops they arrive healthy but are kept so badly that they become ill there. Can't blame the importers for that though, I believe they even send out fact sheets with the newts to the pet shops.

Its a sad story seeing all these animal dying in pet stores. Many times because of lack of information but also because of ignorance.

A good argument when complaining to the store owner is to state that it is better buissiniss if they are to be kept cooler. Works better than blaming them and getting in i a situation of prestige.

When I was 15 years old the store owners did not listen. Today when I am 33 yaers old they still don´t listen. Horrible cynical ways of doing buissiness with animals on.

Sad to see.

/M

I've been in several discussions with pet shop owners about this. Often nothing can be done about the high temperatures since the facilities are crowded with tanks containing tropical fish. These tanks often keep the temps around 25C in the whole facility. The worst ones are those that actually have heaters in with the newts...
Those people often have no knowledge about sals whatsoever and assumes they should be treated as tropical fish, lol. Most shops around here at least keep them in separated tanks without heaters. I think most pet shops have way too much animals to be able to handle them all properly. However I think they must do it that way to even make these kinds of businesses break even. Its sad really.
Mattias have you read the rules for amphibians in Sweden, they are totally radical and not followed by a single pet shop. If a pet shop owner refuses to listen it might be constructive to give a hint.
If they are real assholes you could report them to Jordbruksverket, they are the ones that are supposed to uprighthold these rules. Usually that's not necessary to get them to listen though

I think the governmental level that actually looks after that the laws are obeyed in these matters are the county councils (Länsstyrelserna). I know stores that have been reported without any effect in the long turn.

The stores could keep the salamanders in separate sections or at least separate racks. Not to put the salamander tank right on top of the light for the tank below with higher temperatures as a result.

It is even more sad since it is law for every zoological store keeper to pay for really expensive courses about every animal group they want to sell, and still the nowledge of salamanders is neglected.

/M

Jesper, I don't really think its funny (you put "lol" at the end of a sentence talking about how stores treat them like tropical fish). Thousands of newts dying before they get a loving owner is not funny, it's very sad, especially when the people who took them from the wild worked unusually carefully every step of the way until they get fried at the petshop. Lots of effort and money are lost as well as newts, eventually its stores like these that could suffocate newt trade. The most common mistake I see made in pet stores selling newts is that they put them in tanks with out lids with pipes and wires going in and out, it's like they don't expect them to use their legs.

Plz Ben, you don't know what you are talking about, the lol was IRONY! I have convinced all the pet shop owners around here to treat the newts just a little bit better and I have given them loads of info. Can you say the same?
So don't come here preaching, ok?
You are obviously too young to understand cynism....

Mattias - I've never had to go far as you have, obviously you have more evil pet shop owners in Malmo, hehe.

Enligt Jordbruksverket själva så:
"Jordbruksverket har ansvar för frågor som rör djurens hälsa och smittskydd."
Sen den första Jan 2004 ligger dock anvaret hos djurskyddsmyndigheten:
"Djurskyddsmyndigheten är en helt ny myndighet. Från och med den första januari 2004 ansvarar vi för den centrala tillsynen av djurskyddet."

Jag har själv pratat med Jordbruksverket om detta och de sa inget om länsstyrelserna. Kan det vara så att Jordbruksverket, nu djurskyddsmyndigheten, har det centrala ansvaretoch länsstyrelserna det lokala ansvaret?
Kan du ge mig en referens som visar länsstyrelsernas ansvar för detta?

Djurskydd

Jordbruksverket är central tillsynsmyndighet beträffande djurskyddsfrågor

Kommunerna }har det lokala ansvaret för den direkta tillsynen av djurskyddet. Om man tycker att djur far illa eller djurhållningen sköts undermåligt bör djurskyddsinspektören i kommunen kontaktas. Denne kan sökas på den kommunala förvaltning som handhar miljö- och hälsoskyddsfrågor i kommunen. Se gröna sidorna i telefonkatalogen. Anmälan kan även ske till länsveterinären som i sin tur kontaktar djurskyddsinspektören i kommun.

Länsstyrelsen är överprövningsmyndighet och prövar kommunernas beslut om de överklagas.

Länsstyrelsen har det övergripande ansvaret för att djurskyddet sköts i länet. Länsveterinären samordnar djurskyddskontrollen och lämnar stöd och anvisningar åt kommunerna i tillsynsarbetet. I samarbete med kommunernas djurskyddstillsyningsmän drivs riktad kontrollverksamhet av djurskyddet. Samverkan sker även med jordbruksverket i tillsynsarbetet. Länsveterinären samarbetar också med kommunerna och jordbruksverket vid tillsyn av försöksdjur, tävling med djur och djuruppvisningar. Länsveterinären handhar frågor om omhändertagande av djur och djurförbud

Omhändertagande av djur
Om en kommun eller polisen omhändertar ett djur av djurskyddsskäl, måste beslutet underställas länsstyrelsen som skall besluta om omhändertagandet skall fortsätta att gälla. När länsstyrelsen beslutar att ett djur skall tas omhand skall länsstyrelsen även besluta vad som skall hända med djuret t ex om det skall säljas eller avlivas. Det är polisen som handhar den praktiska hanteringen med djuret och som verkställer länsstyrelsens beslut.

Djurförbud
Länsstyrelsen kan fatta beslut om djurförbud för den som visat sig olämplig att handha djur.

Sorry for that all non-Swedish speaking. It would not be repeated...

/M

Tack för upplysningarna Mattias!

For all you other guys, we just held a little conversation about how the swedish animal protection laws is implemented. Actually it was more like Mattias informing me how it is handled practically. It was easier to take on Swedish.