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foster
22nd January 2006, 23:03
Earlier in the week I ordered 0.2 WC S. s. terrestris(?) in order to complete a group. I am not crazy about purchasing WC animals however these animals (according to my source) are from the same area (my source said Russia) as the other three that I have. In any case, I set the two adult females up in quarantine several days ago. This morning I opened the enclosure to see if they had consumed the worm chunks that I threw in last night (they had) and saw what I at first thought was pieces of old skin. I picked one up with forceps to throw it away and quickly realized it was a larvae. Two were present at the time. I put together a rearing tank (a plastic "critter carrier" with about a 2 cm of water and some java moss) and moved the larvae over. I changed the paper towels in the females enclosure, added more water, and elevated one end on a section of 2x4 so that it slopes down to a pool. I have since found another larvae. Unfortunately the one that I handled with forceps seems to be injured. It is swimming but not well. I feel really bad but I must have damaged part of it's spine. So, how many of these can I expect to appear? Also, they seem really large. Can I feed them thawed, chopped tubifex and brine shrimp or do I need to scramble to order some live cultures of something smaller? Any comments appreciated.
Chip

gord
22nd January 2006, 23:20
Good luck with your larvae Chip.Funny how often weird things happen in this hobby. Just wondering if you ordered your salamanders from a wholesaler or from an online source?

Gord

philip
23rd January 2006, 01:15
hi chip, ikeep fire salamanders in an outdoor enclosure, and whilst cleaning leaves out of their small pool in november i found 27 larvae. i brought them indoors because the pool is too shallow to protect them from severe frost. and some of them have begun to morph. sorry about pic quality, i took it with my mobile phonehttp://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/52430.jpg

foster
23rd January 2006, 03:09
Thanks for the info Philip. Gord, I purchased them from Mark Lucas (online). I realize that this is not the testimonial section however I have to say that this was my first time ordering from him and his service was excellent.
Chip

francesco
23rd January 2006, 08:05
If they come from Russia they are probably S. s. salamandra.

william
23rd January 2006, 08:19
just about to say that Francesco. basically if it's spotted then it's probably S.s.salamandra, if it's striped it's terrestris amongst other things

foster
24th January 2006, 01:52
This morning I found about 6 more larvae. The injured one from yesterday did not make it. I tried feeding some chopped tubifex (previously frozen) however none seemed interested in eating.

Francesco and William - the adults are mostly broken striped.
Chip

philip
24th January 2006, 17:52
will. which sub-species would you place mine in?http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/52584.jpg

philip
24th January 2006, 17:58
chip. for the first few weeks i fed mine on daphnia, and then moved them on to live bloodworm and very small earthworms. at 15c 59f they grew rapidly

andy
24th January 2006, 19:23
Look like Terrestris to me

philip
24th January 2006, 21:09
thanks andy. i was fairly sure about the larger one (female)being terrestris. however the broken pattern of the male left me with some doubt. do they have any other features to distinguish the sub-species?

foster
24th January 2006, 21:45
Philip,
Those look very much like my animals. Also, did your larvae start eating right away or did it take a couple of days?
Chip

philip
24th January 2006, 22:23
not entirely sure chip. as i said i found them by accident in my outdoor enclosure, so they could possibly have been a week or two old by then and it was already getting down close to freezing overnight. but once i brought them into the conservatory and warmed them to about 60f they started to feed within a day or two. they were however very secretive and wouldn't eat much until after dark, so i put them in a large tub with about 12" of water and lots of elodea to hide amongst and they fed like pigs ever since. i wish you all the best with yours, and i'm sure they will feed soon
phil

philip
24th January 2006, 22:29
one more thing i forgot to mention is that they seem vulnerable to frequent water changes(even dechlorinated)and ilost several in the first few weeks. but once i started a regime of fewer(25% per week) changes, i never lost another one.
good luck phil

sergé
25th January 2006, 07:57
Striped or spotted is not the best way to determine salamandra or terrestris. Especially because in the Ukrain there are striped salamandra's...
Philip yours are for sure terrestris. The citron yellow is to my opinion a good indication for that, alos the slender shape of the animals and the stripe pattern on the head. But I must admit, for single individuals it is very difficult to tell.
For US: WC terrestris should not be possible to get in your shops. In all European countries that are within the EU they are protected.

philip
25th January 2006, 16:55
thanks serge. i know it should not be possible to get wc terrestris but mine are wc.

foster
26th January 2006, 02:16
Serge,
I did not order from this dealer however I suspect that these are most likely from the same original source...

link deleted

As you guys have already pointed out identification can be difficult from a photograph however I would be interested in opinions.

Three more larvae have been collected. The others seem very interested in food at this point. Last night I offered flightless D. melangaster (the smallest live food that I had on hand). several individuals would snap them up only to spit them back out again. Today I bought some live brine (adults) at a local shop and these were consumed enthusiastically. Even though these animals did not officially breed under my care this is still a very exciting first for me.
Chip

(Message edited by jennewt on January 29, 2006)

sergé
26th January 2006, 06:53
It's a laugh...extremely high yellow...they are ordinary terrestris. I know in the past there was an english trader (I will not mention names) who went a few times to France with a large van to collect salamandra and take them back to the UK. Once they were in the UK customs could not do much any more. I don't know if he is still around, but this still could be the source.

jennifer
27th January 2006, 01:01
Chip, congratulations! Get live blackworms. If they larvae are still too small, chop the blackworms. These are the absolute best food source for larvae available in the US. If you live in NE VA it should be easy to find them. If you live in SE VA, I can tell you where to get them, as I used to live there.

(Message edited by jennewt on January 27, 2006)

foster
27th January 2006, 02:50
Sorry Jen but I am in Radford, Va (SW). I have actually been meaning to mention this for some time but I think that I may have seen you drive through once a long time ago (I remember the plates). I will have to order the blackworms online, none of the area stores carry them. Thanks for the advice.
Chip

jennifer
27th January 2006, 23:53
Ah, probably too remote to have blackworms, but it still might be worth calling around, maybe in Blacksburg? That would be quite amazingly cool cool if you saw my car. For those who have no idea what we're talking about, I used to have SALMNDR license plates.

foster
28th January 2006, 02:11
Jen,
I called around the other day just to make sure and nobody had any. I even thought about calling the Roanoke stores however they are in such horrible shape these days that I just ordered some online. The larvae are still accepting the brine shrimp so they should be OK until early next week when the blackworms arrive.
I remember noticing your plates a long time ago (at least 10 years ago if not longer). You were driving on US 11 just outside of Radford going through the Fairlawn area. I remember wondering if you were a fellow herper or if the plates had some other meaning for you. It's funny how small the world can be. For those of you who are not familiar with the area that we are talking about (which would be most everyone I imagine) Radford is a very small town in SW Virginia.


Serge,
Thanks for the ID.
Chip

foster
29th January 2006, 20:54
Whoops, sorry about posting the links. I wasn't thinking. I really need to buy a digital camera.
Chip