S.s. fastuosa question

M

mark

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Can anyone tell me the average size of adult fastuosa subspecies? I have come to understand that various subspecies have different adult sizes, but have failed to find a good breakdown for each...
I currently have two that are about 4.5 in. long and a smaller juvenile that I got earlier that is around 3.5 inches.
Also, do salamandra have a slow growth rate - how long would you expect one to reach full size?
 
According to my <u>Amphibians in Captivity</u> book, the average size of adult S.s. fastuosa is around 12-14 cm (approx. 4.5-5.5 inches). Also, they are less tolerant to temperatures above 68 degrees, as they are a mountain subspecies.

How long have a had them, Mark?
 
Thanks for the info.
I just got the 2 larger ones a week ago...perhaps they are adults then (4.5 inches). The smaller one I have had about 5 months. I make sure to keep the temperatures low enough.
I am very surprised that they adults would not exceed 5.5 inches average...I know subspecies can vary in size but its incredible that s.s.salamandra can apparently reach 12 inches, but s.s.fastuosa does not even reach half that size?! Is that about the smallest of the subspecies then?
 
I believe it is the smallest subspecies. The next smallest is S.s. almanzoris, which, on average, are only one cm bigger than fastuosa. Interestingly, they're both from Spain.
 
They are certainly not the smallest subspecies (up to 17 cm as far as I have seen myself) and they are not a complete mountian species, they are also found in lowland area's of northern Spain and southern France. It all depends on where they animals come from originally. But sadly no-one seems to take notice of that. So, no sure answer to your question. On average it takes 4 years (to my experiecne) before Salamandra start reproducing.
 
You are right Sergé

Salamandra s. fastuosa is an eurosiberian subspecies, and occurs mainly beech forests in northern Spain, but is not strictly a mountain species because is frequent at the sea level in the Cantabrian coast.

Regarding his size ( 12/16 cm ), is bigger than S. s. almanzoris, but not than bejarae or gallaica ( 20/25 cm ).

In general, extreme conditions doesn't favor to reach a big size, as we can see in some "dwarfed" populations of S. s. almanzoris at 2.400 m of altitude ( with terrible oscillations of temperature ) but this is not a law: In Pyrenees mountains are not strange S. s. fastuosa with 20 cm of size.
 
The book was published in 1995. Perhaps it's a bit outdated in regards to fastuosa.

Ruben, in regards to fastuosa being 20 cm in size in the Pyrenees- that's interesting to hear because the Pyrenees is the location specifically mentioned in the book.
 
Jeff

I'm sure your book contains good and correct information. But only happen that information about local variations ( in colour, morphology... ) is difficult to find in general books of amphibians.
 
I agree with Rubén, for such questions the book is far too general. If you are really interested in Salamandra there are very good books on just this group (but mainly in german). Recently one came out in german by Burkhard Thiesmeier (see www.laurenti.de). It is called Die Feuersalamander.
 
Do you know any great books on salamandra in English or Spanish? Otherwise I'll need a German interpreter to read me a bedtime story
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!
 
Sadly, no...but come to think of it...there could be a huge market, perhaps I should do it myself..
lol.gif
 
<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Sergé Bogaerts wrote on Wednesday, 27 April, 2005 - 08:18 :</font>

"Sadly, no...but come to think of it...there could be a huge market, perhaps I should do it myself.."<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Do you mean writing a book in english, or reading people bedtime stories
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!

Ruben- Thanks for the link. I'll definitely be reading this.
 
I'm not sure, maybe you could do both
biggrin.gif
. Say, how are fastuosa and bernardezi differentiated between the two subspecies? I know that both are viviparous, and I've seen some bernardezi that look exactly like fastuosa. Are they really that different that they need to be categorized as different subspecies? How are they different?
 
Hello!
The same spanish book that talks about the triturus species changes, says that the hole iberian salamandra salamandra subspecies are now being studied because it seems that there are only 4 real subspecies in this area.
Best regards
dino
 
Well, the funny thing is that on the genetical level bernardezi and fastuosa are truly different, in their coloration they resemble a lot. But bernardezi is more finer build (to my opinion). Besides that, fastuosa is 99% of the times laying larvaes like many other Salamandra's. But...there are of course area's where they meet and probably mix as well.
 
I think bernardezi is ( in general ) smaller than fastuosa, but not too much. On the other hand, bernardezi looks more robust salamander many times.

By the way... this weekend I saw a lot of fastuosas in a forest located at 200 m. of altitude. Probably can be found at lower altitude.
 
Ruben,

How large were the fastuosa that you found this weekend? Were they adults?
Are they a commons subspecies to find?
 
Hi Mark

Well, the S. s. fastuosa population which I have seen were middle build animals; I think around 12/16 cm.

I found it in an oak forest ( Quercus robur/Quercus petraea ) near from the coast and, to my opinion, it's a common subspecies to find.

I will post pics soon.
 
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