View Full Version : My juvie fires...a colour difference

25th July 2004, 18:36
my fires born in february are now about 3.5 to 4.0 inches in length. i dug around the wooded tank they are in and found 15 (i had put 16 in there about a month+ ago)-i still have 3 that are welll.....retarded, they are still larval and one looks like it wants to be a supermodel when it grows up......it wouldnt bother me if they were like other sals that stay late in water getting bigger all the time (bigger usually then their land based siblings) but these guys are small -one is showing some hint of colour. they range alot from slight yellow to almost 40% yellow.
i have one that is different and im wondering if its significant...its darker in the yellow -more orangy and less bright-does this mean its got a hint of red pigment or just less bright yellow? -here are some pics so you can see.

also on the other thread i was asking about the black fires (s atra) and there was the suggestion to breed look a likes from the nominate form...i have thought about that before but i am wondering about well ..if its right? i know many cb programs for lizards and snakes etc...breed to bring out certain colours-do people do this with fires? is it considered a bit underhanded? one could presumably breed 100% yellow and 100% black fire sals but would these then throw off the 'authenticity' of the fires in captivity? i know a good breeder would not cross them but to the occasional hobbiest this might be more of a 'happening' than a planned outcome.(if they happened to be with other wild type pattern fires). this is a debate brought up with c e popei since most people want the loud gold spots but these exist in only about 3% of the wild population. since europeans have been keeping these collectively for alot longer than us here in the US - are there any out there that are doing this already? i know these would be a little more 'marketable' than specific common subspecies but would it be frowned upon by serious hobbiests? to breed the yellowest isnt it better to start with a very yellow subspecies to start? -i know some subspecies have different body types ...hmmm what do you guys think..??....

26th July 2004, 01:27
if the animals are captive born there should really be no real problem unless the genetics for the colour carries with it some kind of deformity or disease, but other than that i think it would be ok. ppl do it with axos all the time i mean if they didint do that with axos there wouldint be such variety among them.

26th July 2004, 06:16
The colour will change into yellow in almost 99 % of the animals. When they have just metamorphosed they are mostly darker yellow orange then when they are a few weeks old. When you start raising your own larvae you will see that.
It has got nothing to do with different subspecies, within one group of young from one female many different patterns can arise.
In the past (1930!) there have been people keeping and raising almost completely black Salamandra salamandra in Germany and they even had relatively pure lines. The parental animals were found in the wild.
But my suggestion was more of a joke then of a serious kind of thing. I really don't like the specific breeding of a typical colour pattern or (in case of snakes and gekko's) breeding animals with lack of some kind of colour. Especially the latter is not good for the animals themselves. But there are people in Europe breeding albino Salamandra salamandra, but these are very difficult and sensitive. Of black lines I don't know that they exist.