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sarah
23rd February 2007, 14:55
I posted a few months back, I had just gotten a siren (though the person I bought it from had told me it was an amphiuma) at any rate, since it's been a while, and it's still alive (wow!) I thought I'd ask what you all think. Still don't know if it is lesser or greater, but I'm thinking it's lesser. I know it's not a dwarf. I don't know what the heck it's eating, though I do feed it frozen bloodworms (thawed first) and live brine shrimp, I very rarely see it eat. I've also tried sinking salamander/newt pellets, but I've seen him try to eat them and then spit them out. Are they too hard? Or just taste bad? Who knows.

I keep guppies in the tank with it now, originally I bought some tiny baby guppies to see if it would eat them, but I have since done research and found that sirens have poor eyesight, and are mostly bottom feeders, it would be unlikely for them to be able to catch fish as a regular food item. All those guppies grew up, so there are quite a few in there that I feed dried bloodworms and fish flakes to. Occasionally I've seen the siren come out during the day and eat the floating bloodworms, but for some reason this doesn't seem like a natural behavior. Perhaps learned? I also put ghost shrimp in there, and when I notice they are gone, I get a few more. I'm not sure if he's eating them, or if they just die, or what. My friend thinks the siren must be eating them, but they just seem so big compared to the size of my siren's mouth... Either way, they add a bit of interest to the tank.

He must be eating some of the food items I've put in there for him, otherwise there is no way he'd still be alive right now, right?

Anyway, some pictures, tell me if it looks ok, if you have any guesses as to what kind of siren it might be, etc. It's rare that I get to see him out, but it's so exciting when it does come out, such a beautiful little guy. (Or gal).

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/2_22_07bed.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/2_21_07bed.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/2_21_07eed.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/socuted.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/movemented.jpg

The most recent pics are here: http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/

And the older pics are here (along with pics of my tiger sally): http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/

Should his gills be more red? What else could I try feeding him? Most places around here don't sell live foods, it's all mostly frozen. And I don't trust going to a baitshop..

ryan
23rd February 2007, 22:11
He or she looks ok. You should really try live nightcrawlers (i get them from my local bait shop and feed them to my mudpuppy). Most of the time if you get Canadian nightcrawlers they are caught in unfertalized forests, so they are pretty safe.

Its probably a lesser siren. I only say this because they are more commonly found in the pet trade. The only sure way of knowing is to measure it (lessers get 7-27 inches, greaters are bigger) The most different trait between the 2 species is the number of costal grooves (grooves along the side). Greater and lesser sirens have a different number, Lessers have less than 35 and greaters have more than 36. Also it looks like you have to many guppies, and the gills look fine
hope this helps

lane
24th February 2007, 03:54
You definately need to try the worms. It looks a little to small for big nightcrawlers, but if that's all you can find, you can cut them up and give him little chunks. We buy our worms from Walmart. Tallahassee Walmart's carry them back in the fishing section. Our lessor siren loved bloodworms, but now he's eating worms and pinky mice. Good luck.

sarah
24th February 2007, 13:34
I was hoping it was a lesser. I knew about the costal grooves. I've been trying to count them since I got him, but I just haven't been able to get a real count. I'm pretty sure it isn't full grown at this point, but I can't really tell if it's getting bigger or not.

I'm gonna get rid of some of the guppies I think, lol. I'll just keep the pretty ones, bring the rest to a petstore.

I know you can't tell what size he really is, but, his mouth is quite small. I'll go look for worms next time I go to walmart, though. Thanks!

pierson
24th February 2007, 14:25
That's a lesser Siren. Greater Siren usually have distinct gold spangling on a greenish-gray ground color.

My siren (I have several) eat bloodworms (frozen-thawed) and earthworm chunks.

sarah
24th February 2007, 15:54
When I bought this siren, they had two others that had gold stripes on them, I'm glad I hadn't picked out one of those! Just because I don't want to have to get a monster tank to house one. When I was doing my research, I saw a greater siren that looked just like the ones I had seen. But I haven't seen any lessers that look just like mine. I'm still curious what supspecies he might be. I got it from a reptile show, by the way. The guy I bought him from was a real @$$ and insisted he knew everything about everything. He told me it was an amphiuma, I looked it up, and it most definitely was NOT. I called the guy I bought it from to let him know, he insisted that it was an amphiuma. Whatever, dumb people can't do their own research... ANYWAY, I got some vids of him eating bloodworms! This is the first time he's actually come to the turkey baster when I've put in frozen bloodworms. It was pretty interesting. The guppies must be eating his food. Or maybe I just don't notice when he's eating brine shrimp because he doesn't come up to the top for those.. Gonna take some guppies out later anyway. Enjoy!

http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/?action=view&current=MOV03759.flv
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/?action=view&current=MOV03760.flv

Man, it bugs the heck out of me when the bloodworms are RIGHT in front of him but he just doesn't realize it. Bah.

peter
24th February 2007, 17:07
That video makes it look like (s)he's trying to bite
the turkey baster,probably because it is easier to see. Try getting bigger food such as earthworms. The bait shop is fine.

ryan
24th February 2007, 19:48
I see what you mean, again try earthworms or chopped nightcrawlers.

sarah
24th February 2007, 19:49
ah, nah, he/she eats the bloodworms, i haven't seen him actually try to get the turkey baster. i dunno, i didn't notice that that's what it looked like, i think he may just be getting used to it. he used to NEVER come out when i was near the tank. now he sometimes ventures out when i'm nearby, maybe he's associating shadows near the tank with food coming soon? i also saw him a little later searching the bottom for more leftovers. it's cool to see him suck things up and he filters out the sand. i'm going to try going to walmart first. i've never been to a baitshop, but my friend told me there was one but it was like 45 mins away. so i think i'll try the walmart first, since it's only 10 mins away, hehe.

lane
2nd March 2007, 03:20
So did you try the worms? How did it go? If he's anything like ours, it chowed down almost immediately. Since there's basically no one out there breeding sirens or amphiuma's it's almost certainly wild caught. While out herping in our local creeks and streams we're always finding earthworms under rocks and leaf debris IN the water, especially after rain... so that's probably as natural a diet as your going to be able to give it. Let us know!

lane
2nd March 2007, 03:26
Also, we just watched your video's and we think you should use another method if you're going to stick to feeding bloodworms, you may find that it is a little more effective. We take the frozen cube and set it aside on a paper plate. Once it fully thaws we pick it up between forefinger and thumb and give it a little squeeze, 1 to get the excess moisture off and 2 so that it forms into little ball, then we carefully drop the ball RIGHT at the surface of the water (to keep it together as best as we can) and let it sink to the bottom. Our siren smells the food almost immediately and comes over, and just sucks up the pile like a little vacuum. We use a baster also, but only to remove the left over food to keep as much waste out of the tank as possible. We also use the baster to suck up poop. So if you haven't gotten the worms yet, try the other method... he may get more to eat that way.

Good Luck.

sarah
2nd March 2007, 14:37
Didn't try the worms yet, I could have sworn the last time I went to petco they had them, but they didn't when I went this time. I didn't get a chance to go to Walmart yet, been busy getting ready for spring break. But I did get him some brine shrimp, which I saw him eating. It's just so annoying when he doesn't realize they are RIGHT THERE NEXT TO HIM and he doesn't get them, bah. I didn't want to touch the bloodworms with my fingers because I heard some people are allergic. I guess I could use a glove, I'll try what you suggested, he does seem to enjoy the bloodworms. When I feed the guppies freeze dried bloodworms, he comes to the top to eat them, I thought that was an odd behavior. Anyway, I can't tell if he eats more brine shrimp than I can see or if they are getting sucked up by my filter... The fish eat them anyway, the baby guppies tear into them, vicious!! I did remove about 8 or 9 adult guppies yesterday and brought them to the local petstore (they traded me brine shrimp and some crickets for my tiger sal) yay! So it's a lot less crowded in there now. There's probably still about 8 adult guppies in there, I might take out a few more. And there are tons of babies, but I was hoping he would eat the baby guppies if he got hungry enough... I'm still going to check for earth worms when I get myself over to walmart. If he doesn't eat them, my tiger sally probably will.

I see a lot more fish poop in there than salamander poop. Maybe he's pooping under the sand?

lane
3rd March 2007, 22:47
Hmmm... maybe, but I don't think so. Ours doesn't poop under the sand. We've had low success with him eating live fish/shrimp. I think you really will have the most success with the worms. I'm anxious to hear how he does when you get them.

One reason for not getting the shrimp when they are next to him is because they have very poor eyesight. That's why we have more success dropping a clump of bloodworms in and letting him stumble upon them to eat them up. His sense of smell is good, but he is much more interested in the worms.

I've never heard of people being allergic to bloodworms, that's interesting... but I'd think that unless you have a cut on your fingers, washing them right after would prevent any allergic reaction, so no worries there.

The only thing about the poop... he may not be producing much waste if he's not getting enough food. Ours happily eats 2 or 3 earthworms a day if we offer it... but we usually stick to 2 or 3 every couple days. With bloodworms occassionally inbetween.

As for coming up to the top, we found it odd at first too, but now after having the 12 amphiumas and the siren, coming to the surface to eat is regular behavior, but we are thinking this is actually a learned behavior. Although, I'm sure in the wild they just eat whatever they can find available. Since they are most active at night it's probably a safer time for them to comfortably eat off the surface...

Keep us updated!

sarah
16th March 2007, 01:24
So I did what you said about the clump of blood worms. He did eat them for a bit, he was able to get them easier, but then he wandered away from them and came back to them later. I don't know if he had just eaten enough for a bit, or if he didn't know the rest of them were there... But oddly enough, my fingers did tingle after touching the bloodworms for about 10 mins. I didn't have any other sort of reaction though. I'm not ruling out that it could be entirely mental, however..

What was really cool, I noticed one of the ghost shrimp that had been in there for a while, she had eggs! I was really excited about it. I left her for a while and just kinda watched her. Then I looked up online what to do about it. Websites said to put her in a separate container and then once the eggs hatched to take her out and raise the babies. So, I took her out, gently... The next day (this morning) she was dead. =( I don't know what happened, I'm guessing stress? I didn't stress her when I took her out, she went into the container quite easily. I'm just guessing she was stressed from not having enough places to hide... It was sad, cause yesterday I could see the baby shrimps in the eggs with tiny little eyes! It was kinda cute. Little round balls with eyes. I know I was just gonna try and feed them to the siren anyway, but I wanted them to get big enough to not get sucked up into the filter.. I shoulda just left them in the tank =/ Damn internet suggestions...

STILL haven't gotten the earthworms yet... Are "red wigglers" the same thing as earthworms? They had some of those at petsmart but there wasn't anyone around to tell me what they were.. I've been sick and haven't really wanted to drive out to walmart.

TJ
16th March 2007, 02:09
Probably not your imagination. I'm in daily contact with bloodworm (feeding 3-4 sheets of Hikari frozen bloodworm cubes daily) and have the same sort of uncomfortable tingling sensation -- and I know others who experience the same reaction. So I now always wash my hands with soap soon after handing bloodworm.

As far as siren feeding goes, with mine (I've had her some 4 years), I simply drop one vitamin-fortified bloodworm cube daily into a calm front corner of the tank where there's no gravel, and let it sink. No advance thawing or using turkey basters (except to remove any uneaten bloodworm, of which there's usually none).

If anybody's feeding frozen bloodworms that partially float on the surface of the water, then it's low-quality stuff and you might consider upgrading if you can afford it http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/wink.gif

<font color="ff0000"><font size="-2">On an administrative note, I've changed the thread title from "What do you think? (Siren)" to "Siren identification, feeding" to better reflect what the thread's about.</font></font>

(Message edited by TJ on March 16, 2007)

ryan
16th March 2007, 11:26
Red wigglers are small earthworms, you could try them but do what Tim said.

lane
17th March 2007, 10:38
Sarah, I personally don't know too much about ghost shrimp, however Lane (who works at Petsmart, lol) said that it's possible that if you didn't use "Stress coat" or another type of chemical agent remover to the water you seperated her in, it's a potential cause as some animals are more sensitive than others. He also suggested that if you don't have any already you pick some up also for your water changes in the siren tank.

Good job on the bloodworm thing.

We keep a similar sized amphiuma with our siren in a bowfront tank. The siren will eat occassional bloodworms but now he eats a more steady diet of worms and 1 - 2 pinkies per week.

Sorry about your shirmp and baby's... http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/errr.gif

Jennifer

ryan
17th March 2007, 12:17
Wow Jennifer, you keep a siren and an amphiuma together! Have they ever attacked each other? How many gallons is the tank?

jim
17th March 2007, 13:00
Red Wigglers are not the same as nightcrawlers, most caudates reject them especially when cut up as they excrete a strong smelling yellow substance.

sarah
17th March 2007, 14:20
Thanks for the info, Jim, I guess I really will have to go to walmart for those worms, lol. I was waiting till I was out of toilet paper...

Tim, I've done that in the past too (just putting the unthawed block in), but the block will float, as you said. And even when I thaw, half of them will float and half of them will sink. What brand do you use? I can try and look for it. I just usually buy whatever the independant petstore I go to has. And, I was a bit confused about the title, haha, I was wondering if my post got deleted, then, nope. =P

Jennifer, I didn't put any new water in or anything, it was the same water she was originally in. It's ok about the babies and the mom, I mean, she was just a feeder ghost shrimp. It was just really cool to look at and watch. So it's a bit of a bummer. I'm thinking either the container wasn't washed as well as I thought (it was previously used to hold brine shrimp in) or she must have been really stressed cause there wasn't anywhere for her to hide. But I guess looking into a stress coat in general wouldn't be a bad idea. Do ya have pics of your amphiuma and siren together? That's pretty cool that they can live together without hurting each other.

TJ
17th March 2007, 15:43
Hi Sarah,

I use Hikari-brand bloodworm. Here in Japan there are three types generally available:

* the cheapest type (one solid block of bloodworm) in which the worms are of poor quality (thin, and they often float) and they are of questionable cleanliness

* the standard type in which the worms are in cubes that have been sterilized

* the superior Hikari type (available in the U.S. too) in which the worms are of the best quality, sink, are better sterilized and are fortified with vitamins

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/80249.jpg http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/80250.jpg

The block will float of course until it starts to melt, but the individual worms will all fall to the bottom of the tank.

(Message edited by TJ on March 17, 2007)

lane
17th March 2007, 17:20
Hi Sarah,

We too use Hikari bloodworms just like the picture Tim posted. You can find them at Petsmart and they usually run about $12.

Ryan, so far we've had no run in's or close calls. The bowfront is like a 15 or 20 gallon... and it's only filled like 3 or 4 gallons I guess... Lemme get you some pictures.

Jennifer.

ryan
17th March 2007, 17:39
Only 3 or 4 gallons of water for 1 siren and 1 amphiuma? Sounds like pretty close quarters. I would really like some pictures.http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/happy.gif

lane
17th March 2007, 18:12
This is the tank from the front.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8826_1_1_1.jpg


Here's some of the Amphiuma eating:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8833_1_1.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8838_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8834_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8839_1_1.jpg

The Siren

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8828_1_1.jpg

A view of them both (They weren't cooperating and were hanging out on opposite sides of the tank)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8857_1_1.jpg

Now this was intresting to watch... One of the worms escaped and buried itself under the rocks... the siren smelled it and wanted it. Watch what he did to the plant.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8860_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8861_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8862_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8863_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8866_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8868_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8867_1_1.jpg

Well these were the best I could get right now. Usually they are both out front hanging out with each other... Enjoy!

lane
17th March 2007, 18:29
BTW Sarah... LOL! You make me laugh... Your lucky!!! It's been almost a month since you've been to Walmart! I am only shopping for 2 people but still somehow always end up needing to be there like 2 times a week. If you're waiting on the toilet paper... try to go to the bathroom more, lol... Just kidding.

Jennifer

(Message edited by Amphiuma_Guy on March 17, 2007)

ryan
17th March 2007, 18:43
Thats a neat feeding sequence of the siren. I still think thats not enough space for a siren and an amphiuma. My mudpuppy (about 9 inches long) has an entire 20 gallon to its self and its filled with about 15-17 gallons of water. I still feel like its not enough for the mudpuppy.

Lane, how long is the siren and amphiuma? I'm guessing 10-12inches? How long have they been in there together? Is there any hiding places that I can't see? I would recommend one or two more.

(Message edited by i_love_necturus on March 17, 2007)

(Message edited by i_love_necturus on March 17, 2007)

ryan
17th March 2007, 18:54
Here is a picture of her tank Patricia, so you can get an idea of what I'm talking about. You can see her under the rocks if you look close. Her name is Bart if you don't already know.

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/80257.jpg

(Message edited by TJ on March 18, 2007)

lane
17th March 2007, 18:57
OK they both came out for some hunting. Here are a few more pictures of the happy tank mates.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8873_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8888_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8892_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8920_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8921_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8924_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8926_1_1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8929_1_1.jpg

lane
17th March 2007, 19:16
Ya, I agree it's not big enough. Infact, I don't think any of the amphiuma's we have are in big enough tanks. Let me give you the run down.

We have the siren and the amphiuma together as you've seen. Your are right about their sizes.

Then we have 2 probably 18 - 20 inch amphiumas in a 55 long.

We have 2 probably 25 - 30 inch amphiumas in a wavefront 125 gallon.

We have 2 probably 55 - 75 gallon ponds with 2 each also around 25-30 inch amphiumas in each.

Finally we have a 180 gallon with 2 giant amphiuma's that are probably 30 - 36 inches and eat 1 - 2 adult F/T mice at a time when fed.

I posted their tank a while back, but I'll post a newer photo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8931_1_1.jpg

You can see the 2nd one back there hiding beyond the big one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8932_1_1.jpg

Here I just used the cell phone for a size reference.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/JenEmpfield/IMG_8935_1_1.jpg

It's hard to know what is "enough" for these guys Ryan. It sucks really, because I want them to be as happy as they can be. If you know what I mean. Obviously nothing beats the wide open spaces of the wild... As I've mentioned in the past our main goal is to breed these guys...

We've had the siren and amphiuma together for about 6 months and both have grown A LOT in that time so it's almost time for them to move into a larger tank.

ryan
17th March 2007, 19:20
Wow I'm surprised that they have lasted that long. As you can see in my tank the mudpuppy seems pretty happy there but your right nothing beats the wild.

ryan
17th March 2007, 19:35
Here is a pic of Bart that i snapped with my phone last week.http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/80260.jpg
I don't mean to get off subject but it only feels appropriate.

lane
18th March 2007, 00:24
Bart looks cool. I've never seen a necturus in person. I don't know all that much about them. Lane knows quite a bit about them though. How big will he get? Sorry I didn't respond sooner... We had to go get bunny traps because some of our breeder/feeder bunnys escaped. We had 7 this morning in the back yard... Now we've only got 2 left to catch. http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/violent.gif

Jennifer

ryan
18th March 2007, 00:29
The record for a necturus is 19 inches. She will probably only get 12-15 inches though.

sarah
18th March 2007, 14:01
lol, yes, Jennifer, it's been a while >_< I bought a BIG pack of toilet paper last time. It seems that I'm always changing the toilet paper, however, so I don't know why I'm not out yet... As for food, I usually get lazy and go to the closer Publix or Walgreens. I'll go to Walmart if I need toiletpaper or if my friends need to go, it's farther away and I don't like driving, lol.

Nice pictures guys!! That's amazing that the siren and amphiuma just hang out together like that.

The bloodworms I have are san fransisco bay brand. They are in blocks. I have to go to the petstore today though, out of rat food, so I'll look for hikari.

ryan
18th March 2007, 15:13
Just try to get those nightcrawlers soonhttp://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/wink.gif.

jennifer
19th March 2007, 02:29
Jennifer &amp; Lane, since you are thinking of moving these guys to a larger tank, I would suggest separate tanks. I know you've had them together for a while, but both of these species are known for inflicting bites on tankmates. I'm concerned that as they grow older, their dispositions could become less amicable. A lot of juvenile animals are sweet and cuddley, but change when they mature.

sarah
19th March 2007, 13:03
Holy... I guess I didn't use this brand of bloodworm the first time, I don't know what I WAS using, but this san fransisco bay brand, they look redder, maybe he can smell them better? I put in a cube, he searched it out and IMEDIATELY ripped into it!! I just tried to get a video of it, I'll post it when I can. Wow, never seen him THIS excited about food!! It makes me happy.

TJ
19th March 2007, 15:50
That's really good news, Sarah http://www.caudata.org/forum/clipart/biggrin.gif

Here's a photo of my siren, snapped just after the cube sank in the corner and she was moving in to eat it:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/80351.jpg

And a close-up of Hikari bloodworm being eaten by a Cynops ensicauda:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/80352.jpg
(newt's thinness attributable to internal parasites

(Message edited by tj on March 19, 2007)

ryan
19th March 2007, 19:09
That siren looks great Tim! What do you keep your tanks temp at? Mine (mudpuppy) is usually 58-60.5 F. Do you think I could feed my mudpuppy frozen bloodworms? I want to give her something other than nightcrawlers.

(Message edited by i_love_necturus on March 19, 2007)

ryan
19th March 2007, 21:24
Here is a better more recent photo of the pup.

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/80396.jpg

(Message edited by TJ on March 30, 2007)

ryan
28th March 2007, 00:30
How is your siren doing?

lane
28th March 2007, 10:28
Yes, I ran out of toilet paper (I buy 24 packs) so by now you must have too! Did you get the worms?? Nice last picture of your pup Ryan, it looks really cool!

ryan
28th March 2007, 10:31
Thanks Lane, yeah Sarah did you get the worms? I am anxious to find out how your siren does with them.

sarah
29th March 2007, 11:48
lmao, no, I still didn't get the worms. BUT!! I got a video from yesterday's feeding. And yes, I need to go to walmart this weekend, I'm down to two rolls of toilet paper ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeYqD37oMaE

The camera keeps going out of focus, pretty annoying... And sorry for the background noise, it's my tv.

sarah
29th March 2007, 11:51
Oh, also, I think I counted 31 or 32 costal grooves. I was pretty sure it was a lesser siren before, that pretty much confirms it, right? Greaters have more than 36, is that correct?

ryan
29th March 2007, 19:02
Thats right Sarah, you got a lesser.

sarah
30th March 2007, 00:06
=D

Oh, I was looking on youtube today, anyone ever seen this before? A video with siren eggs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8pDf5Xhous

ryan
30th March 2007, 00:10
Wow I've seen this guys videos of his sirens before but I've never seen this one!! I didn't know it ever happened in captivity! Its to bad hey weren't fertilized.

sarah
30th March 2007, 01:26
I heard of it once before, but maybe it was this same person, I never saw a video, just pictures. The eggs were unfertilized though. Pretty cool =P

Also, I took more siren pics, and a new shrimp has eggs, haha. I'd like to direct you to this lj entry, cause I'm feeling lazy and don't want to copy and paste a bunch of links...
http://chaosrah.livejournal.com/333040.html

ryan
30th March 2007, 11:27
Great pictures Sarah I love sirens they are my faves (next to necturus)!

sarah
30th March 2007, 22:51
Uhhh, ok, soooo.. I just got back from Wal-Mart. I found that they had night crawlers in the bait section. So I got two 24 tubs of them... And well, they are HUGE. I think the first one I pulled out was almost as long as the siren was... Please don't tell me I have to cut them in half.. I'm squemish about hurting live organisms.... What happens if they are too big for him to eat?? Oh god.. I'm gonna have to cut them, aren't I.. I need to find someone who can do it for me... Ew ew ew... I don't have a problem holding/touching them, but please, I do NOT want to cut them!!! Agh...

lane
30th March 2007, 23:14
Lol... Well, they have smaller worms there too... But we know you won't be back to walmart for a year or so (HAHAHAHAH, just kidding) I think we get the panfish worms... Maybe we should have mentioned that since I guess not everyone knows about worms.

Ok, just try this, take one of the smaller giant night crawlers and just offer it to the siren. See what happens. Ours will happily take a huge nightcrawler and of course it takes him a little while to get it all down, but we've not seen adverse effects. I don't have many suggestions about how you can cut em up and feel comfortable doing it if you're not. I just rip em right in half if I need to. I've always been the most tom-boyish girl out there... Just try one, see what happens.

Jennifer

sarah
30th March 2007, 23:22
Well, it won't choke, will it? I just didn't know what it would do if it was too big. They didn't have different sizes that I could tell. There were white tubs and blue tubs. The lady there didn't know the difference, so I got one of each... That's all they had. Soooo...

ryan
31st March 2007, 01:27
No your siren won't choke, if it can't eat it it will spit it out. I fee my mudpuppy nightcrawlers that are about as long as she is.

Here is are pictures of the kind I feed her.

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/81214.jpg

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/13/81215.jpg

sarah
31st March 2007, 12:02
Lol, well, that's what I bought. It says Canadian Crawlers, white tub. The other tub is blue with air holes, for some reason. My tiger salamander can eat these too, right?

ryan
31st March 2007, 12:25
Yup, did you try to feed your siren the worms yet? I just fed my mudpuppy a big worm a few minutes ago...lol, I offered another but she seems to only eat one each feeding (every third day)

sarah
31st March 2007, 15:33
Holy <font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font><font color="ff0000">•</font>. Ok, guys, read my latest entry right here about this. I just watched my siren DEATH ROLL!!! (Like a crocodile, hahahaha)

http://chaosrah.livejournal.com/334791.html

sarah
31st March 2007, 15:36
Aww, I went back to watch it eat. Apparently it hasn't been able to SWALLOW any of it yet. A chunk of the worm is hanging on by a thread, and the siren looks as if it has no intentions on giving up on this meal. Dragging it around in it's mouth, and such...

sarah
31st March 2007, 16:03
Ok, he's on the last little bit now, haha. The part that was almost torn off is now seeping blood.. The fish and ghost shrimp are trying to get in on it, but the siren is having none of that! How often should I feed the siren these, anyway?

ryan
31st March 2007, 17:41
Thats great Sarah I knew your siren would take the nightcrawler! I would say one every third day, thats what I do with my mudpuppy, whenever I offer a second nightcrawler she just turns away.

sarah
1st April 2007, 00:16
I just uploaded this, I hope you enjoy it! It may not be up for a few minutes, it's currently being processed by youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSo9gAtYhm4

ryan
1st April 2007, 02:04
That was great Sarah! I watched your other 2 videos too! I loved them! I'm going to try to put some videos of Bart on my photobucket tomorrow, be sure to watch them.

sarah
15th April 2007, 20:49
Bah, I guess I'm gonna go back to just the frozen bloodworms. I've tried 3 times since the first time with the nightcrawlers. The 2nd time, he never got the whole thing down and I ended up taking it out and tossing it. It was only half a worm, too. This time (today) I cut it into 4 pieces, and still, he tried, but did not succeed in getting any of the pieces down. Now the worm is definitely dead and turning pale, being in that water for so long, so in a bit I'm gonna remove that too. His appetite has increased quite a bit since the first nightcrawler experience, and I've been feeding him frozen bloodworms in greater frequency. I'm sad that I have two tubs of worms in my fridge going to waste. My tiger salamander wouldn't eat them after the first time. I guess they weren't as tasty as crickets and mealworms, lol.

What's even more disturbing, somehow half of the worms escaped from their dirt tubs and into the bottom of my fridge... I think they all died in the corner, I better take them out before it gets nasty in there.... Good thing I kept them in a separate compartment... and in my own mini-fridge... Ewww... I'm sure my roommates would have been very upset, lmao...

sarah
15th April 2007, 20:51
Oh, I forgot, here are some pics of him TRYING to eat a portion of the worm...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/nightcrawler7ed.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/nightcrawler5ed.jpg

Also, this is not a siren, but it's kinda cute anyway, hehe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiZWKxjpRIY

ryan
15th April 2007, 21:18
I had trouble feeding my mudpuppy nightcrawlers recently. She couldn't get the whole thing down. On Tuesday Im gonna offer her smaller pieces.

sarah
15th April 2007, 21:39
He may have eaten part of it. I found one piece I had seen him trying to eat and I took that out just a bit ago. The other 3 pieces, I'm not sure if he ate them or they got lost in the tank somewhere. There are tons of plants and it's hard to see.. Hopefully I'll figure it out..

sarah
25th April 2007, 14:30
I wanna share this pic cause it's too cute!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y266/wldkiwi274/Ginui/Undine/cutefaced.jpg

Also, my siren never ate the whole worm. Bah. I had to fish out chunks of bloated worm...