Anyone else into these large beasts???

Just wondering if I am the only freak that is fascinated by the larger, uglier salamanders? I just love their unconventional appearance and differnt mode of life. Would love to chat with others about any of these species. I was bitten by the salamander bug literally(by an Amphiuma) so maybe that has something to do with my fondness for these species.

EK

id love to get some, but untill i move back out east i have no way to obtain hellbenders (i saw one on a sales list for 400$!!) i am facinated by amphiumas because they look like sock puppets. im hoping eel man will get some in stock again- my friend in the uk fed his almost exclusivly cat food and it did well for him. my problem is almost everything caudate facinates me, the odder the better. the bigger guys are just harder to keep due to space limitations-youre lucky to have a house.

i did order 3 necturus from carolina last year-but they came in shipped two day mail in foul water with fungus/sores and all died within 3 days. i would love to get some dwarf necturus.

Hey Paris-long time!

No matter how much space you have -it's never enough. I will probably have my building started by this time next year-that should hold everything for at least a few more years.

Yeah the Necturus from Carolina Biological are usually pretty rough. I was collecting them in lakes in Chicago and Hammond, IN. They are very common up there despite the massive pollution in that area. In the winter them migrate to the shore-under rocks. In the summer they are in the deep water and hard to get. Email me on the Necturus punctatus.

Hey, any tips on collecting them? Those are one of two species in ON where it's legal to collect them, and I was interested in getting some of them. I wouldn't have a clue how to start though.

Thanks,
Rob

I'm interested in these guys too. I personally keep N punctatus, they are great. They have become really tame - coming to the glass when I am in the room. I think I may have the South Carolina sort - they have gold flecking all over their bodies and black spots on the tails. I hope to aquire some more.

I'd like to get some more Necturus species, especially N beyeri, N alabamensis, and N louisianensis (maculosus louisianensis, not sure if it has been officially split or what). N lewisi would be awesome (even though this probably won't happen) since it is the most distant from the other Necturus it could be quite different. I plan to order some maculosus from a biological company here soon, we'll see what shape they are in.

I'd like to find out more about the undescribed Necturus in Florida and Alabama, do you have any information on these EK?

I hope I can maintain contact with you other large aquatic enthusiasts.

Oh, and about hellbenders, amphiumas, and sirens . . . I'm also interested in these (not so much Pseudobranchus), but they require larger tanks than I can provide right now (not S intermedia, but they are lesser priority to Necturus), maybe in a few years.

On collecting: we just flip rocks along the shore in the shallow water. Some of the rocks aren't even covered with water. In the summer and in warmer weather (the ones in the great lakes area anyway)they are in the deeper water, they just migrate to shore when it starts to get cold. I have also collected them in large streams in PA. Also by flipping rocks along the banks and sometimes in the stream bed. Usually they are in the muddier areas, and sometimes (in PA), they are under the same rocks as hellbenders. As a side note, I did keep some 20"+ hellbenders and 8-10" Necturus maculosus together in the same tank for 2 years without incident.

About Necturus alabamensis/beyeri/"black warrior": I don't wan't to guess on the taxonomy, but I'm sure new species will be described. I have collected in FL and LA, juveniles can be common(as in easier to collect) at the right time of year(winter).

Finally some other people to talk about the big boys with! Hopefully I will get a digital camera soon so I can post some pics.

I was just looking into the Nikon Coolpix 4300 earlier today for the same reason. Hopefully I can manage to afford one and take pics of my collection, especially the prize of my collection *grin* which are also my favorites, and they aren't even Necturus.

What all large aquatics do you keep EK?

I am also interested in Necturus maculosus. It seems that Carolina Biological is the only source for me. ANy other ideas.?

Ward Biological carries them.

Has anyone tried using a minnow trap to collect Necturus. I have tried looking for them under rocks before without much luck.

I have tried minnow traps before and while they work great for Sirens-I had no luck with Necturus. Might have just been me-it's probably worth a shot if you know you can drop the trap at a known site.

I think Nasco sells maculosus also.I'm really not sure how Carolina Bio. can sell Necturus legally since they are a species of special concern in NC. Maybe they are shipping them from a different state? Of course they also occasionaly sell tiger salamander egg masses and that is another protected species in NC.

FYI:If you guys ever saw what goes on behind closed doors at carolina Bio. you would think twice about buying anything from them.

Does anybody know where I could purchae some sirens? I've tried a few shops onling but havn't had much luck. I found one shop from CA, but since I live in Vermont and they don't ship outside of CA I can just pretend I never found it. Any ideas would be apprecitiated.

This guy has a good reputation:

http://www.expage.com/page/itsalive

For those looking for necturus maculosis, I will be going scuba diving in lake michigan this summer and may be able to grab some.

~Aaron

Does anybody know if sirens are solitary or social?

I've had dwarf sirens...I can't say that they are social, because I don't want to add emotion to amphibians, who really aren't capable of it. But, they did not avoid each other entirely, and they didn't make any attempts to attack each other (that I know of) while feeding. Also, about the N. maculosis, Nasco science has them for sale also.

Dan

Hey Aaron....I read some of your posts on kingsnake.ca. Are you a fellow Canuck? Or just post on there?

Where do you live abouts? I may be up for some of those Necturus pending where you are located.

Thanks man,
Rob

On Siren social behavior: When I see them in the wild at night, they are always spread out over the course of the stream-by themselves. Who knows what they do under cover during the day. In an aquarium they often share the same cover object, but that may just be an artifact of captivity (more Sirens than cover objects, etc...). They are peaceful with each other though I do see bite marks on some when collecting during the breeding season(fall/winter).My captive nettingi have just started this as well. They do make clicking noises underwater that have been said to be a form of communication and at least one guy told me they are "orgy breeders" from his observations.

Ed can probably comment on Pseudobranchus.

I'm in Wisconsin.

~Aaron

Hi All,
In reference to sirens at least in lacertina the males are agressive to other lacertina and will bite other greater sirens (a round about way of getting a guess at sexes). Put two together and look to see who bites who as apparently the females do not tend to bite the males. In aquaria, I have often seen individuals of both intermedia and lacertina biting each other when they are going to be fed (feeding reaction).
I agree with Erik that the sharing of cover items in captivity tends to be an artifact of lack of space and or cover in the larger species. I think Petranka describes (from other literature) spacing of the larger species in some ponds and while dense the animals each had thier own location in the water column for feeding.
As for Pseudobranchus, again I think this is an artifact of captivity as in fewer numbers and deep gravel beds, the dwarfs I work with will space themselves out in the aquaria (however there may be some subtle cofactors I am unable to observe). If they are not given a choice they will clump under any of the cover items. I have yet to see biting or bite wounds in the four groups at work (between three and eight individuals)but have had it reported by other keepers. However, it is interesting to note that I have only been successful breeding the low density groups (2 groups of 3 individuals in two 20 longs).
As a further comment, "social" behavior does not have to include emotional needs. It may been entirely due to other requirements. As an example red-eye tree frogs (A. callidryas) breed better when there are multiple males calling. This is a "social" requirement that increases breeding success. There really isn't any emotional connotation to this other than that we assign to it.