Hellbender

Hi @ all!

How big must be a tank for one Hellbender? I'm especially interested in C.a.bishopi because i've read that they get smaller. Is that right? How fast do they grow? Is anybody breeding them?

Greetings,

Kamil

Hi Kamil,

Forget the bishopi, they are very rare now and completely off limits for collecting. They are not much smaller anyway.

I am not trying to preach here, but in my opinion hellbenders should only be kept by those trying to breed them. I can't see the justification in someone collecting a single animal for use as a 'pet' or showpiece. They may be somewhat common locally, but overall, they are rare. In a 1 mile strech of stream ,there may be only a few feet of that stream that is suitable habitat. Alot of populations are non viable, with only large, old adults-no young.

I understand they are very interesting and appealing animals,so don't take this the wrong way.Just my opinion and since you asked, for one hellbender, you would need a tank of about 55 gallons minimum.A tank of 75-125 gallons is more suitable though, with water temps under 75F and flowing water.

I am confident that someday soon, they will be bred in captivity, so hang in there. I did have a female lay eggs in 2000, the male was very small, but mature and he didn't do his job. At least it was a step in the right direction. I have a new plan for breeding them(outside with a chiller when necessary) and I am confident it will work. My trouble now is with getting permits to keep hellbenders in the state I just moved to. Had to leave mine with a friend back home for the time being.

If you have any other questions, just let me know....

Just some supplemental info to what EK said: C. a. bishopi is thoroughly protected in both Missouri and Arkansas now. Here at my university, research is showing that the only bishopi left in the wild are very old, large adults. This suggests that they have not successfully reproduced in many many years. The research has also shown that sperm taken from male bishopi is no longer motile, and so it does not appear that they can reproduce any longer. It's a very dire situation. To save them, it seems we'll have to solve the problem of why they are not reproducing in the wild any longer (probably due to synthetic estrogen-like chemicals) and start captive breeding programs with manually fertilized eggs.

Are any zoos breeding Crypto? I know of several (okay a couple) projects involving Andrias. but have any zoos gotten Cryptobranchus to breed?

Just an update: I've been told that eggs and larvae of wild C. a. bishopi were indeed found this year. Good news eh?

-Nate

(Message edited by asper on November 18, 2002)

Very good news! Maybe there is some hope.

BTW Greg-no zoos are breeding Cryptobranchus, but several are trying. There are some old reports for a couple institutions, but nothing successful in recent history that I am aware of. I heard 2nd hand that Zoo Atlanta had eggs a few years back, but they were not fertilized or went bad, not sure if that is true. I had a LTC female lay eggs 3 years ago, but my male didn't fertilize them. He was barely sexually mature at the time, so I didn't make too much fun of him.

Very good news! Maybe there is some hope.

BTW Greg-no zoos are breeding Cryptobranchus, but several are trying. There are some old reports for a couple institutions, but nothing successful in recent history that I am aware of. I heard 2nd hand that Zoo Atlanta had eggs a few years back, but they were not fertilized or went bad, not sure if that is true. I had a LTC female lay eggs 3 years ago, but my male didn't fertilize them. He was barely sexually mature at the time, so I didn't make too much fun of him.

i cant remember where i saw the map, but it was a very poignant visual that all the tributaries that fed from lake erie or had access to it-there were no hellbenders . i believe it may have been in the book salamanders of ohio. the map had a distinct line cutting through ohio of where they were and where they werent.

Might be true for OH, but from personal experience, it's not true for PA.

In Ohio, the rivers that feed into Lake Erie aren't really good bender rivers anyway... I mean, one of them caught on fire once.

They also are generally deep and muddy and in flat farmland habitat. none of which bodes well for benders.

SE and SW Ohio though... even some of the branches of the Miami River and the Hocking River... that looks much better. Hilly area. etc.

It's interesting, where I've seen benders there were also Northern Spring Salamanders, Necturus, Eagles, and log-perch Darters. ... and trout.

In Northern Ohio, where I grew up... we had... uh.... hmmm... let me think.... I saw an eagle a few times. but none of the others did I see. Necturus should be in Lake Erie though...but I never saw it and I snorkled there looking for things many summers.

How did we start talking about Ohio and benders anyway?

I lived in Ohio for about 26 years before moving east. I know the areas you may be speaking of... one of them is a nice tributary of what I think was the Little Miami River that I used to visit at some state park. Looked okay for 'benders. Never really looked for them there though. Keep in mind that 'benders are protected in Ohio and in all likelihood the areas where the habitat is still relatively okay are probably within protected areas too. So catching one would be a problem on 2 counts... protected species and protected area. Definatley check with ODNR to make sure that even looking for them is okay. In many states even the risk of accidentally harming a critically endangered species is cause for alarm. I think the wording in CT is something to the effect of "causing harm, directly or indirectly, or interferring with the daily life of...." I remember the signs in Florida saying "Do not molest the alligators.". Always thought that a bit funny....

By the way, how close are you to Cedar Bog?

Greg

Just making sure that others who might read this thread also understand the legal side of all this and that we don't make it too tempting for somebody to do something outside the legal bounds. There are states where 'benders can be collected legally. And even then I think we'd all agree that it is not an undertaking for the novice.

I also used to live nearish to Cedar Bog. I visited it a couple times while studying massassauga rattlers in the area. The population at Cedar Bog is well-known... but sad-to-say probably not entirely native. Of course... that's off-topic for this forum.

Greg

I have been fascinated by these creatures in a passive way for a long time now. I am also somewhat adept at building filtration systems for large tanks and keeping them pristine (I raise fancy goldfish). I'm wondering if someone can point me in the direction of what resources would be good to learn more about the hellbenders. I don't collect herps, but it would be nice to have a captive breeding goal to work towards. Please let me know. Thanks.

Tim

(Message edited by snakebaby on October 08, 2004)

Hi Tim,
To date there have been less than 4 recorded clutches of hellbender eggs laid in captivity all of which were infertile. Two of the clutches were laid in a raceway system at a trout hatchery as part of an experiment to see about captive breeding hellbenders. The third reproduction was hormonally induced at the Toledo Zoo.
Hellbenders are in severe decline throughout their range to the point where they are under review by USF&W (although this probably will not change anything due to the current political climate and underfunding of USF@W). I strongly recommend not aquiring any hellbenders as in some of the populations, loss of a few individuals may make the population nonviable.

If you are really interested in benders then please support the CIG (Cryptobranchid Interest Group) which is sponsered by the AZA (American Zoos and Aquariums). Last year they donated $1000 to support Cryptobranchid research. Here is a picture of the shirts that are currently for sale to raise funds http://www.caudata.org/forum/cgi-bin/board-auth.cgi?file=/25/18700.html&lm=1095257378

If you have any other questions please let me know.

Ed

Does this mean that there is no room for private parties to also work with continuing the species? I'd love to be able to back up what you say with my own research. Could you recommend good sources of info on the species called hellbenders? Thanks.

Tim

Hi Tim,
No, there is room but even institutions (that have kept benders for years) and researchers are being very hesitant in removing benders from the wild. Many institutions are working to pair up single animals with animals that are already captive as they do not want to be the person or institution that was responsible for removing the animal that resulted in a population becoming nonviable. There is a mad scramble on to assay current populations to determine which are still viable. You have to remember that it is possible for greater than 90% of a stream's hellbender population to be contained in less than one half a mile of stream. There is more to their husbandry than keeping the water pure. This is relatively easy to accomplish with current technology. Keeping them cool enough and oxygenated enough is more of a problem. There are also indications that benders may be sensitive to nitrates.
What would you specifically like to know?

Ed