Overwintering N. kaiseri

alan · Oct 30, 2005

In preparation for breeding next year, how should I overwinter my N. kaiseri? They have been kept in a well ventilated semi-aquatic setup at 20-25C all summer and seem fat and happy, but never enter the water.

I'm thinking 10-15C over winter, but for how long, and how should I treat them afterwards?

Thanks,

sergé · Oct 31, 2005

Well, I have kept them in an aqua-terrarium until now, temperatures have dropped now to 18 degrees and they enter the water frequently. Last year I kept them like that and it resulted in very fertile females but a male who wasn't in the mood... The females now also are very fat and devellop already their tube-like cloaca's.
Now I'll drop the water level and let the tank dry out. Then I'll try to keep them terrestrial, and at temperatures between 5-10 degrees for two-three months and then re-enter them in their aqua-terrarium. But...it is just a try.

alan · Oct 31, 2005

Thanks for that. You think it's nessecary/advisable to go as low as 5-10C?

sergé · Oct 31, 2005

Well, I don't know, but it surely won't harm the animals. But it would be interesting to compare, if you don't do it and I do...we spread the risk.

alan · Oct 31, 2005

A good idea! I'll aim for terrestrial conditions, 10-15C with reduced illumination for 10-12 weeks, then back to 15-20C, gradually raising the water level to encourage them to go aquatic.

ralf · Oct 31, 2005

This will be quite interesting. Please keep us updated.

alan · Oct 31, 2005

Watch the For Sale section Ralf!

Seriously, I like the idea of this collaboration. Any more kaiseri keepers want to join Sergé and I in this experiment?

justin · Oct 31, 2005

This would be an interesting experiment. I would recommend doing behavioral observations as well as photographs for documentation. Also taking temperatures during different times of the day throughout the experiment would give more of an idea. I'm interested to know whether day/night changes are as important as changes over time. In some frogs in South America the day temps don't vary much, but the day/night ones vary quite a bit.
j

sergé · Nov 1, 2005

I was reading the german information on the AG Urodela site and there is a piece by Jochen Kopetsch who says he keeps them around 10 in winter time. But I'll keep them as said from half november on until end of january (or so) at lower temperatures. I think it is good to write down actual temperatures (so hanging a meter inside and write it down preferably every day, but I know I can't do that).
I would be interested in seeing someone keeping them aquatic at temperatures around 10 and then in Spring raising the temperature with 5 degrees or so. More or less like Jennifer Macke did with here aquatic kept N. strauchii.

alan · Nov 1, 2005

I find a maximum-minimum thermometer:
http://www.google.com/search?q=maximum-minimum+thermometer&btnG=Phrase
invaluable for recording temperatures. Over the years, I have accumulated quite a collection of these and have them scattered around all over the place. Very useful. Try ebay!

justin · Nov 1, 2005

Forgive a foolish question, but these drops in temperatures are only for cycling to reproduce, you do not subject immatures to the same temperature drop do you?
j

sergé · Nov 2, 2005

I didn't raising them but of course it would be more natural to do so!

justin · Nov 2, 2005

True. My only contention would be that it may be less natural since they don't have the same refugia as they would in the wild to find an appropriate location to prepare for the temperature drop. So perhaps with their small size (and surface area) this could be doing harm. I could be way off though.
j

alan · Nov 2, 2005

I don't think many keepers would deliberately subject them to the temperatures they are likely to encounter in their natural range, thus we mimic the moderating effects of a hibernaculum.

justin · Nov 2, 2005

Alan, I'm in complete agreement. Coming from a dart frog husbandry background it's very interesting me that you actually have to do some husbandry work and adjust temperatures for reproduction.

On a side note, but yet related, what is the status of N. kaiseri in collections? It seems in the US N. strauchii is doing alright, but as I understand they are the more 'common.'
j

alan · Nov 3, 2005

I give my dartfrogs seasonal variations because I believe this is beneficial to long term health and breeding success, although not extreme as need from most caudates from higher latitudes of course. It also cuts my frogroom heating bill in the winter and so is more environmentally friendly!

alan · Nov 6, 2005

OK, it's done. They will now be kept at 10-15C with reduced illumination until early January. Thinking about it, I decided to put them in separate containers so I don't have to worry about the Coolidge Effect.
I normally don't disturb these reclusive animals more than I have to, but since I was transferring them, I took some pictures:

justin · Nov 6, 2005

What kind of containers are you using to cool them, and where did you put the containers? Very pretty animals by the way.
j

alan · Nov 6, 2005

25x18x10cm plastic boxes with large mesh panel in lid, bark substrate & corkbark hide, small water dish.

justin · Nov 7, 2005

Are you placing them in a cold part of the basement or in the refrigerator?
j

Overwintering N. kaiseri

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