Notophthalmus in the US

Hi,
I just read some threads about Newts from Pet Shops dying at what Jennifer calls "Pet Shop Newt Syndrome" (I thinks that's a really good expression). Whe know this in Germany from Cynops, Paramesotriton and others bought in pet shops. But it is very common to Notophthalmus viridescens too which are sold very often in Germany. Even experienced newt keepers fail to keep them for a longer term. I was wondering if those species are easier to keep for people in the us, as the newts sold over there do not have to travel so far to get to the pet stores.
Greetings
Fabian

I have seen the same thing in pet shops in california with eastern newts,at one place they would get in a large quantity of 20 or more in the same 20 g tank with the tank filled up to the top,some of the newts looked sickly and very thin,that would just about wipe out the others,ive rarely bought an eastern newt that survived longer than 3 months,and i never bought from a place that overcrowds or looks sickly.Im sorry to tell you its the same in the U.S.

Yes, eastern newts here also suffer Pet Shop Newt Syndrome. I don't know if the chances of getting a healthy eastern are any better than the chances of getting a healthy Cynops. I have bought two sets of eastern newts in the past 3 years. One set all died, even though they looked healthy and did well for a few months. The second set has now all lived for over 1.5 years, they are much better. So it is possible to get healthy ones here.

That's interesting. What Jennifer describes with her first set is exactly what had happened to me with two sets of eastern newts (and what I've heard from others). So there might be some other factors than just the transport which make's it difficult to keep wild caught newts. Has somebody some ideas? Could be parasites?
Fabian

I've collected several sets of wild caught Notophthalmus over the years with no problems whatsoever. A few of them clearly had parasites/injuries/infections/whatever and promptly healed in captivity and did very well. Only once did I collect some for a friend (N.v. louisianensis) and they all died of infections within a couple weeks. It leads me to believe it's all in the stress of transport.

I collected 5 last year from the wild. They had a 7 hour drive home in a bucket on the floor of my car. They are still alive and healthy today. I haven't had any problems with them whatsoever, and they've already bred once, very succesfully! Back to the topic: I have seen them offered in PetsMart , but I didn't buy them because I'm satisfied with the ones I already have (which are AMAZINGLY colored). The ones I saw in the store were in with the firebelly toads and the petshop employee insisted that they ate new pellets.

Hi S.T., I'm curious, what makes them amazing? Are they nominates? I've seen some nominates before with comparatively huge red spots.

Nate, I'm not sure this will help, but I'll try to explain. I have 5 and one has the normal coloring you'd expect to see. The other 4 vary from what I usually see in this species. It's hard to explain in words, but their colors are in places deeper and in other places quite vibrant. One in particular has a completely different tone to it's coloring with much larger black spotting, and the way the shading and pattern is laid out makes it look like a leopard. In general, their colors are just more striking than what I'm used to seeing. I wish I had a better digital camera. It takes pictures fine from a few feet away, but when I get close enough to take pictures of my newts, they just come out as a blur. They really are quite beautiful. When I was collecting them, I had collected more than just the 5 I have now. I let the rest go back into the pond, but I kept those 4 because of their coloring, and I also kept one normal colored. Also, the one I described as "leopard like", developed a really interesting hue around his black spots when he was breeding. I'm not even sure what color I would call it. Anyhow, I was just intrigued by their coloring.

You mean like this?

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/985/5520.jpg

That's a photo of one of my N. v. louisianensis. With only tiny red spots, of course, but definitely a "leopard" pattern.

Nate, Out of curiosity, which state did the newt in the photo come from? Were all of the ones you collected like this one? It's really pretty.

Not that long ago, scientists came from all over the globe to look in the Smokey Mountains National Park in Tennessee for new species of plants and animals. They found and documented many, and some were salamanders. (The Smokies are called the Salamander Capital of the World.)

This leads me to wonder...how do you know yours is only a color variant? Could it be a new kind?

It came from McDonald County, Missouri. Not all of the newts in that population look like that, perhaps one in 7. And the animal in the photo doesn't always look like that, it has quite a bit of variation in how dark and how bold the markings are. Sometimes, it almost looks nothing like that photo. I've also seen a photo of a central newt online from Oklahoma which looked very similar. Rest assured, it's just a color variant.

About the Smokies...they did not find any new species of salamanders, they found previously known species which hadn't been documented in the park yet

Nate,

Thanks for the info., and the clarification on the Smokies. I'll have to email a friend of mine who's about to retire from the park and ask him what the new documented species were. Or maybe you can tell us if you know that too? I'm interested.

To my knowledge the new species were Necturus maculosus and Eurycea guttolineata. Otherwise they simply found new sites for/confirmed historical accounts of previously known species.

Still no A. aeneus though...

(Message edited by nate on February 27, 2004)

So what are the longevity records for Notopthalmus in captivity? I've had some animals I field collected (New Hampshire) since... hmm... 1998. Though there is a chance that the ones still alive are in fact the animals I collected in 1999 or in 2002. SO minimally, 2 years in captivity. Maximally 6.

It's a 30 extra high tank with sand bottom and box filter with lots of live plants, live food, etc. There have been some that died... and some that had "evolution failure" (found crispy in the closet)... but those that I have now are fat and they develop crests every spring... no eggs yet though.

I think I hold the record for Notophthalmus longevity. I have one female that I acquired as an adult in 1983.

The animals I got in 1983 from Carolina Biological were incredibly hardy. I generally gave them poor care for many years, but they lived on anyway. I started with 12 in 1983 and by 2000 had 3 left, now only one. They died randomly over the years.

The Notos that I have acquired since those original ones have been much less hardy. Most are dead within a year. I suspect that collecting your own would be the best way to get hardy ones.

Petranka gives a few different longevity estimates for different populations:

Virginia: males 15, females 12

Maryland: adults are only 4-9 years old based on skeletochronology

Quebec: adults estimated to be 2-13 years of age, and age structure differs markedly among populations with maximum age ranging from 9-13 years.

I'd guess based on Jen's experiences, they can easily live 15-25 years in captivity with good care.

the 6 Notophthalmus i have 3 males 3 females all came from a private pond in luisa county virginia where there is still tons of them. i have yet to travel into the woods on the property to explore more but im sure theres other forms of newt and salimander out there
as for the Notophthalmus on my next expedition if and after my larvae morphs i'll have some over stock if anyone is looking to obtain some.
Wolfie