Call for ID on my para's-lots of pics!

here are a series of photos of a group of 4 paras i have-the pics are of varying size and contrast so that i could bring out the details i hope will help ID them.

more pics here....

no ID nibbles yet? for the record i think them to be fuzhongensis -but i have yet to see really detailed photos to compare them to for sure, im hoping some of the long time keepers-esp the ones in europe will give me their thoughts. the last one pictured is unusual to the others in that the red is almost 'hot' orange/pink-ish, very vivid compared to the others

Hi Paris, this is from the P. fuzhongensis species description; P. fuzhongensis differs from P. guangxiensis in:

1. When the fore limbs are drawn forward, their tips exceed the anterior margin of the eyes to a greater extent.
2. When fore and hind limbs are drawn simultaneously along the flank towards the middle, the palm and tarsus are overlapping (In P. guangxiensis the toes just reach each other).
3. The granular warts have a higher frequency and density.
4. The coloration differs between the two species (they don’t say how).

Hope this helps!

it would work if i had a guangxiensis to compare it too.......

Hi Paris,
I am curious about where you picked those up. The reason that I ask is because a local petshop has been (sporadically) carrying a Paramesotriton species with some individuals having a moderate degree of yellow spotting. Based solely on a casual comparison (from my not so great memory) to some of the internet photos I was kind of thinking P. chinensis. Now that
I look at the pics that you posted I have to wonder if they are some of the same animals that have been popping up in my neck of the woods.
Chip

P. guangxiensis differs in colouration from fuz in that it is generally darker (a brown-black colour as opposed to the olive-brownish of fuzhongensis) and lacks the black and orange in the dorsum and flanks. I would say that these guys are fuzhongensis, which are still quite variable in the tone of olive-brown. The tail colouration fades to orange and grey towards the edges, which is also a character of fuzhongensis
They are not chinensis, as fuzhongensis and guangxiensis are separate from all other paramesotriton (other than the new laoensis) in that they are covered in large warts. The other paramesotriton , though having very granulated skin, lack the high density of skin glands.
I think that, as most captive animals are w/c without locality data, a lot of pictures on the web are only named with (sometimes ill-informed) educated guesses.
Wouter - if you have the fuzhongensis descriptive paper, is the picture of a specimen in colour? My copy (a photocopy) has only a black-and-white photo, which is not too useful.
Chris

I think they do look very much like fuzhongensis, and very much like the ones i have. Im pretty sure some do have the orange/yellow speckles on the flanks too. One is also a lighter, almost greenish colour too, some have very clear mottling, while others have slight mottling. I should get some more recent photos of mine one day!

chip-
i got them with a bunch of newts labled 'firebellys'-they included caudopunctatus and chinensis-so it was a mixed batch, there were more but many were in bad shape.

Chris, my copy is also in black and white. I doubt that the original paper had a colour photo.

Paris, you could try my point 2; if the palm and tarsus are overlapping your animals should be P. fuzhongensis, if the toes just reach each other they should be guangxiensis. Should be that is... it's always hard to ID guangxiensis/fuzhongensis.

do they all at least appear to be the same as each other?

In an educated guess I would also think they are fuzhongensis. It's definetely not chinensis , then the colors would be more drab especially on the belly.
Now as the difference between fuz and guanxiensis is concerned aparently some gymnastics are needed, but apart from someone in france who actually has been in the are I don't think anybody has ever seen a guanxiensis for sure (I may be wrong) ... and some even doubt on theri taxonomy... Anyway treat them right as I'm sure you will , haven't seen any import of those overhere again (and have been looking !) !!