White patches and losing legs and tail - fungus?

My axolotl, named Finnigan, has lost his legs, is losing the tip of his tail, and has white strings/sticks coming out of the back legs - is this the bone?

History of the illness: He had white fungus-like patches on his legs and the tip of his tail for a little while - a couple of weeks. He has had this problem once or twice before. It went away when I used "Fungus Clear Tank Buddies" by Jungle. The medication didn't help this time.

Finnigan lost his legs, and they were sort of healing and re-growing and then getting worse again in a cycle. Now the tip of his tail is white and degrading and his legs are in bad condition, as I described. His tail floats and sometimes Finnigan floats on top of the water and looks dead. It's not looking good!

I read about cures on axolotl.org and this forum. I put Finnigan in a 1-liter container in the fridge (5 degrees celsius) with a dish-towel on top. I will give him a salt bath tomorrow.

Some information about his tank:
-He lives with Tiza, another axolotl who is healthy.
-He eats axolotl pellets but has not been fed recently.
-The temperature of his tank is 58-60 degrees F (14-16 degrees C)
-I will check the water parameters. I don't think they are very good.
-There is a fan blowing on his tank which evaporates water very quickly
-I do a 30% water change every week and I add lots of water to make up for the water that evaporates.
-There is no substrate - just fake plants and a few rocks to hold the plants down.
-The fungus medication I use turns the water green. The box says "Active Ingredients: nitrofurazone, furazolidone, potassium dichromate." I haven't heard that any of these are toxic.

Any advice about Finnigan's treatment or disease would be appreciated! Advice about salt-baths/refridgeration? I am nervous about the salt-bath - wouldn't it be painful to the eyes? I hope he gets better!

Thanks so much!
gecko1 and Finnigan

Hello again! I forgot to ask: what kind of salt is okay for salt-baths? I heard on axolotl.org that table salt (iodized salt) is good. I also have "Premium Marine Salt Mix" for my salt-water aquarium. What would work best?

Also, I will post photos as soon as possible.

Thanks
gecko1

Okay, I did a water test. This is what I got a month ago, when Finnigan's skin and legs were beginning to get a problem.

Nitrate: 80-160
Nitrite: 3.0
Hardness: 150
Alkalinity: 0-40
pH: 6.8 (but possibly not accurate because of low alkalinity)
Ammonia: 0.5

I know these are petty bad. So I did frequent water changes. Today, the water parameters were improved:

Nitrate: 40
Nitrite: 0.5
Hardness: 75
Alkalinity: 0-40
pH: 6.8 (again, possibly inaccurate)
I didn't test for ammonia.

How can I raise alkalinity? Are the rest of these numbers okay for axolotls?

Thanks!!
gecko1

Your tank looks like it's going through a cycle from those readings.

Continue to test regularly, daily or every 2 days max, then do partial 20-30% waterchanges. That will keep the levels down.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Nina F. on Saturday 17 February 2007 - 03:49 (#POST121824):</font>

The fungus medication I use turns the water green. The box says "Active Ingredients: nitrofurazone, furazolidone, potassium dichromate." I haven't heard that any of these are toxic.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> Just because you haven't heard they're toxic doesn't mean they aren't for axies. Quite a lot of fish medications are toxic to axies.



<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Nina F. on Saturday 17 February 2007 - 03:49 (#POST121824):</font>

There is a fan blowing on his tank which evaporates water very quickly <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Um isn't it winter there or do you have central heating? Just wondering why you're using a fan. This is usually used if your tank temperature goes above 20-24C (sorry not too good at the conversions!) As long as its under 20C then turn the fan off.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Nina F. on Saturday 17 February 2007 - 04:20 (#POST121825):</font>

what kind of salt is okay for salt-baths? I heard on axolotl.org that table salt (iodized salt) is good. I also have "Premium Marine Salt Mix" for my salt-water aquarium. What would work best<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

I've used uniodised table salt when I run out of the aquarium/tonic salt as it's known here (they're sort of like chunky crystals!) Not sure what the salt mix is sure someone can advise you on that!

Did you keep a bottle of dechlorinated water (water with water ager/conditioner/dechlorinator drops added to remove chlorine and chloramines) in the fridge too for the complete daily waterchanges?

Well if you didn't put one in now! If you did, when you come to doing the saltbath use this water; as it will be chilled to same temperature as its hospital container (fridged one).

Pour some in another container, you need to add the 2-3 teaspoons of salt to 1 litre of dechlorinated water, give it a stir (when I use the tonic salt I crush them a bit before putting them in as they're huge) then put your axie in. Cover him, place back in the fridge (so temperature doesn't fluctuate). Leave for 10minutes (maximum of 15minutes).

While he's in the saltbath and if its a waterchange, rinse his hospital container out and clean with baking/bicarbonate soda and water, rinse then add the rest of the dechlorinated water from the chilled bottle.

When he's finished his saltbath put back in his container, cover and put back in the fridge.

Don't forget to refill the bottle with dechlorinated water and pop back in fridge.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Nina F. on Saturday 17 February 2007 - 03:49 (#POST121824):</font>

I am nervous about the salt-bath - wouldn't it be painful to the eyes? <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

I've used saltbaths on most of my axies with fungal infections or other unknown with great success. As long as it isn't longer than 15 minutes he'll be fine. As a side note nothing to do with axies, my GP recommends using salt baths for minor cuts/infections as did my mother when I was a kid.


<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Nina F. on Saturday 17 February 2007 - 04:53 (#POST121828):</font>

How can I raise alkalinity? Are the rest of these numbers okay for axolotls?<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

For the moment your alkalinity is fine, axies can survive in pH range of 6.8-8.0 Had your pH level been at the higher end of the scale 8.0 then your water having a high ammonia level (anything above 0) would then make your water more toxic to an axie.

Until your water parameters in ammonia/nitrite are sorted/cycled (the daily partial waterchanges will help) you don't have to worry about your pH levels.

Don't use any other chemicals or medications to fix your tank or axies, this could invariably make them worse or throw your tank cycle out!

Keep us posted.

(Message edited by kapo on February 17, 2007)

The marine salt is just fine. Regarding the medication, I'm not sure about the safety of Potassium dichromate. The other 2 ingredients are both antibiotics, which are safe to use, but will NOT be effective against a fungal infection. Also, if you add this medicine to your main tank, it will kill the beneficial bacteria that cycle your tank, and this will have a very negative effect on water quality.

Your water parameters look much better than they used to be. You should include the ammonia test whenever possible.

When you replace water that is lost to evaporation, you should (ideally) use distilled water. Otherwise the hardness components (and other things present in water) build up over time. That's why your hardness was so high a month ago. The water that evaporates is "pure" distilled water and should be replaced by the same. When you take OUT water, that can be replaced by tap water.

Your pH is just fine, I wouldn't worry about that. It is very close to perfect neutral (7.0).

Thanks you so much! To answer Kapo's questions:

1. Yes, it is winter here, but with the normal indoor heat on, the temperature is about 70 to 76 degrees F (20-25 C). I heard the temperature should be below 68 F (20 C) so that's why I'm using a fan. The fan is so powerful, the temperature is now TOO low, so I will raise the fan up or cover part of it with tape.

2. My system for baths/water changes: I put a bottle of dechlorinated fresh water [for water changes] and a bottle of dechlorinated salt water [for salt-baths] (I used 3-4 teaspoons iodised salt for 2 liters water) in the fridge.

3. I think the reason my tank is cycling now is because I used that medication stuff. I won't use it again.

Now, some of my own questions!!

- What is distilled water? If it is water that has sat out in a bottle for a while to naturally dechlorinate, this is what I used to do. But now, I have to use cold water for water-changes (since I use that fan) and I can't use room-temp water. Why would distilling water lower hardness?

Thanks again!!
gecko1

Hi again! I gave Finnigan a salt-bath. He didn't enjoy it. He turned upside-down and spun around -- belly-up, belly-down, belly-up, belly-down -- for the first 5 minutes. Then he stopped and sat at the bottom. While he took the bath, I cleaned his freshwater tupper with baking soda and water, then rinsed it and filled it with cold dechlorinated freshwater. After 10 minutes of the salt-bath I put Finnigan back in the freshwater.

There is no visible sign of white fungus anymore, except maybe on the tip of his tail. He is missing his legs, poor thing.

I made a new mix of saltwater (3-4 teaspoons of Marine Salt Mix in a two-liter bottle of dechlorinated water.) I made a new bottle of dechlorinated freshwater and put both bottles in the fridge. I'll give Finnigan another salt-bath tomorrow.

Sorry to be so boring and detailed, I just want to make sure I'm doing this right!

When do I stop the salt-baths? How long will it take for Finnigan's legs to regrow? When I put Finnigan back in his old aquarium, won't he get the fungus back right away? Why didn't his tank-mate axolotl get the fungus, too?

Thanks so much!
gecko1

Hi Nina, distilled water is bought in bottles at the store. For an explanation of what it is, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_water
Water "hardness" means the amount of calcium and magnesium in the water (this is a bit of a simplification of it). Your tap water has some calcium and magnesium, but distilled water has none. When water evaporates, it leaves behind the calcium and magnesium.

What you are doing sounds good. I would say continue keeping him in the fridge for at least a few more days. Offer a small amount of food every couple of days.

It's impossible to know why one axie got fungus and the other didn't. Axolotls get fungus when they are under stress - Finnegan may have other medical problems that aren't obvious, or he's just a weaker specimen.

I have been giving Finnegan salt-baths since the 18th (about a week but I skipped a couple of days.) Should I stop soon?

When I put him back in his aquarium, won't he get the fungus again right away? Isn't the fungus still in the tank water?

Thanks!
gecko1

P.S. Any idea how long might it take for his legs and tail to grow back?

Hi again! Around February 27th I took Finnegan out of the fridge and stopped giving him salt-baths. I put Finnegan in a small aquarium (2 gallons or 5 gallons, I think) with a screen lid. I put this in the regular 10 gallon aquarium. This protects him from Tiza, his tank-mate, but he gets the aerated, temperature controlled, filtered water (the water flows through the lid.) I think Tiza may have been biting his legs and injuring them. Now, about 3 weeks later, Finnegan is not visibly healing. His tail might even be looking a little whiter at the tip than before - I can't really tell. His four legs are gone except for translucent stumps! They have been this way for a while. On a positive note, he's eating well. I'll get back with water parameters.

Any ideas for further treatment? How long will it take for him to heal? Why won't the fungus re-infect him?

Thanks a ton!
gecko1

(Message edited by gecko1 on March 12, 2007)

Fungus is not necessarily in tank water. Axies tend to get fungus when they are stressed and their immune systems lower either through water parameters, heat or other. One of ours has had it off and on for months and am constantly giving salt baths, she has always been the weaker one of all our axies - prone to getting sick often. If Tiza had been biting him, it may be because of hunger, they will snap at anything that moves thinking its food.

If fungus recurs, you will need to start salt baths again, you don't have to fridge him just salt baths twice a day.

Depending on his age his stumps and tail will regenerate/grow back but will not be perfect you may find they're slightly odd/deformed looking (which is perfectly normal in axies that have had their limbs/tails damaged) Ours have various odd shaped tails, 6 toes on one foot, slightly deformed leg or gill. It may take several weeks to regrow, if Finnegan is a young juvenile, or several months if its older.

Thank you! I'll keep Tiza well fed when I eventually put her in with Finnegan. Maybe she won't be so interested in his legs!

If the fungus isn't in the water, where does the fungus come from? The white stuff must get onto the axie from somewhere, right?

Thanks again
gecko1

To Jennewt (or anyone): If I use distilled water from a bottle, how will I get it to be the right temperature? My axolotl tank has a fan on it so it's colder than room temperature. Right now I get water from the faucet and I change the temp by turning on more hot or cold (I check it with a thermometer.)

Thanks!
gecko1

I wouldn't worry about a slight difference in temperature - the bottled water is probably only a few degrees warmer, and a gallon of that isn't going to change the tank temp. If you want to cool the tank more, you could refrigerate the bottled water and only add small amounts at a time.

Hello again and thank you!
The tank is between 55 and 63 degrees F. The room temperature is between 70 and 75 degrees F.

About once a week take out 25% of the water, and 25% evaporates, so I add 5 gallons of new water at a time. Would it still be OK to use room temp distilled water?

Thanks a ton!
gecko1