3rd DYING AXOLOTL!!!!!

after about 6-7 months of me owning an axolotl it dies. the same symptoms show up: first peeling skin, then floating, then receding caudal fin, then death.
I think its coz the water is foul so its trying to morph to get out of the bad water, so when i see peeling skin i change the water and test for ammonia. These were the result i recieved 2 days ag:
ammonia: 0-.1 ...it was yellow but slightly off colour, but no where near the green colour of .1
nitrite: 0
pH: 6.2
i added pH up and read that amonia is less toxic and that axolotls can stand a pH of 6.5 so i raised it to 6.5 now. incase my test was wrong.
i feed it every 2-3 days, one beef heart square, i ran out of all my other foods. I'm buying some worms tomorow. i looked for some in the garden but were in a drought atm.
her water reaches 24 but i add ice blocks and beg my mum to put on the air con.
her skin started peeling probably 2 weeks ago, thats when i started changing the water. i noticed the fin receeding about a week ago.
she still eats, its just her fin and peeling skin that i'm concerned about. she seems more stressed.
Should i not do a salt bath because she is peeling and it will sting?
should i put her in the fridge?
i don't have aquarium salt atm, but i will try buy some tommorow.
what should i do? Her water is perfect according to the results i got with my current test kits (they might be out of date, i am buying the new dip strip tests and soon as they come out which tells everything about the water in one test)
about 2 times a week i change 25% of the water ( i am anal and i have worms in my tank so i try to get rid of them and the wasite she might have)
this is what i do at every water change:
firstly i siphon out the bottom, then i put some dechlorinator, nitrite and ammonia remover, conditioner(to harden water with fungus inhibitors), and some water stabilizer (which adds to slime coat and reduces stress with electrolytes). i fill it with water and add it pretty much immediately one litre at a time (i use a container to refill it)
is that what is killing her?
She is 7 years old the past owner only fed her once a week ( i feed her before every water change thoug she is lookng a little thin) and changed 10% of her water once a month. she only left the water to sit overnight not used chemicals like me.
what can i do to save her!!!!! i love her!!! i don't know what i'm doing wrong? last time ppl told me it was bad water quality....but maybe i am adding too much?
sometimes she tries to jump out of the tank as if the water is burning her or smething. i put my hand out and she willingly climbed on top. sat for a moment and the went back under. that was a month or more ago. but things got better after that, now its worse. but today after my water cahnge she seems alittle better.
sorry for being thorough
but i didnt want to leave anyhting out. this is urgent. they normally die within a week, normally after my 90% water change because the ammonia spikes and i freak out trying to get it out of the tank.

Receding fin may have nothing at all to do with morphing, I can remember your previous problems with your other two axies and can understand how you feel about your axie.

since this is the third one its happening to as well, there is obviously something, albeit unwittingly/unknowingly, that you're doing or not doing that has brought round the same results of the previous two.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Teesha Vella on Tuesday 27 February 2007 - 10:02 (#POST122887):</font>

then i put some dechlorinator, nitrite and ammonia remover, conditioner(to harden water with fungus inhibitors), and some water stabilizer (which adds to slime coat and reduces stress with electrolytes). i fill it with water and add it pretty much immediately one litre at a time<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

why are you adding nitrite and ammonia remover - are you not in effect mucking your cycling, if it was cycled by doing that? A cycled tank shouldn't need extra chemicals to remove the nitrite or ammonia. You should only do the daily partial waterchanges to fix this.

Also, adding the water stabiliser, which by your description adds to slimecoat etc.. would that not also add to the bioload of your tank?

Only chemical you should use is the water conditioner that removes chlorine and chloramines from the tapwater. You should really prepare a bucket/container of dechlorinated water at leas half an hour or so before adding it to the tank concerned. One reason not to add it straight away is the water degasses and also you need to let the water settle to the same room temperature as that of your tank (so as not to cause undue stress through temperature fluctuations)

Also have you considered that maybe the rest of the chemicals you're addding are mucking up your cycled tank and inadvertently contributing to the peeling skin of your axie.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Teesha Vella on Tuesday 27 February 2007 - 10:02 (#POST122887):</font>

Should i not do a salt bath because she is peeling and it will sting?
should i put her in the fridge?
i don't have aquarium salt atm, but i will try buy some tommorow. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

I don't think you should do salt baths if she has peeling skin, poor thing.

As well as aquarium/tonic salt I have used sea salt and uniodised table salt (when short of the the other two and petshops are closed)

Yes put her in the fridge. But prepare her dechlorinated water before adding her into the container and don't use tankwater.

Your panicking isn't going to help her, you know that by doing the 90% changes when ammonia spikes doesn't help at all.

I think you should sort her out, put her in the fridge. Make sure to put a bottle or of dechlorinated water in the fridge too, so you can do the waterchanges every day. Try and leave her in there as long as possible (ie more than a week, otherwise I really don't think she will have much of a chance if she's left/returned to the tank)

While she's in the fridge sort your tank out. By sorting it out I mean, quit using some of the stuff you've been using (ie water stabiliser, ammonia and nitrite remover) even leave the pH alone and no waterchanges. I'm assuming there are no other companions as I quickly read your thread I may have skipped something.

Start testing your tank every few days, just keep a record of it. Maybe your tank never really cycled especially if you are adding ammonia/nitrite remover.

thanks. Well this morning her skin doesn't seem to be peeling. All my friends suggested to stop adding so many chemicals and stop changeing the water. I will do so. Her previous owner bought be the other chemicals and i thought i shoudl use them coz their description really made it sound to a benefit to her (its early i cant form sentences yet!!)
I will only use water ager for the moment. I'm goign to buy 2 tubs so that i can just switch her from one to another instead of putting a bottle in. I will keep her in their for about 2 or more weeks, just so that all the "food" in the tank gets used up and all the worms die. i will change about half of the water i think because it has all those chemicals in it.
So how much should i change how often? I'm going to buy that dip strip test which tests for everything in the water (eg. ammonia, GH, KH, pH, nitrite ect.)
Then once i have that i will see exactly if i shoudl change the water or not.
ok so say i had a spike of ammonia at 5ppm. (i know...ALOT)
what am i expected to do? just change 10% ? Or like 50%? wouldn't it die technically if i left it in that for too long?
last time i had 2 axolotls and the one i had the ongest died while the one i had now showed no symptoms. I'm guessing something is building up, or prolonged exposure is causeing this....
All the stuff in my tank is aquarium safe!
ok....i'm off to the shops....hopefully i can save this one. at least she still has her appetite.
i possibly could have caused another cycle....by adding my nitrite remover (it didn't occur to me at the time!!! I'm so blonde!!)
we'll start from scratch.....oh boy...
no other tank mates by the way.

any reading for ammonia or nitrite above 0 you should always do a waterchange of at least 20-30% DAILY. The key things are frequent and partial (20-30% daily). Doing too infrequent then one major obviously throws a tank cycle ut completely.

I do 20-30% on my tanks, sometimes daily if needed but on my filtered tanks weekly, unless i have an ammonia/nitrite spike then i switch to the 20-30% daily changes. It won't bring it down in one fell swoop but will manage the toxicity so that it doesn't harm your axie.

Maybe cutting out all the other tank chemicals with the exception of water ager and the frequent daily changes will sort things out. Just have to have some consistency and don't panic. Your first axolotl, don't forget you did introduce a new one into her environment without quarantining so that may also have had a contributing factor. She may already have been ill but had not shown the symptoms till she was completely stressed out and just couldn't cope.

Good luck and keep us posted.

it happened with all of them though!
BAD NEWS....
today my dad goes "your axy is on the floor"
and im like "no its not"
and hes like "yes it is"
he says it all the time, but i checked anyways and...
IT WAS ON THE FLOOR!!!!!!!!
i quick fast grabbed it...it was tacky....and chucked it in the tank. It was about a eter away and left skin on my hand....as it was sticky/tacky...there was also skin on the floor where it walked. I gave it a look over and seemed to have been not hurt from the 1.5 meter fall!!!!
i'm sure it will heal whatever it has damaged internally or that i haven't spotted.
i went to buy the tubs to put it in today but they were closed!!!! i was sooo mad.....
so definately i will buy them tommorow, hopefully he is still a live. I have aqaurium salt and i'm going ot put a teaspoon in there and see what happens. i think i'll change just 10% with only water ager, just incase as i think i may have caused the tank to recycle if the levels were up.
what should i do when an axy jumps? I am goign to put her in the fridge
TOMMOROW!
should i keep her in an ice cream container in the frisge for tonight? give her a salt bath?
URGENT plz reply so i know what to do for tonight!

don't salt bath her.

Fridge yes, in icecream container, don't forget the extra bottle of dechlorinated water . Keep her in the fridge for a few days and keep an eye on her, not just overnight. She's had a shock, and for all you know it may be a shock to her system and could have injuries that she may if you're lucky will recover from.

Don't you have a lid or something on your tank to cover? When you put her back in get something to cover the tank so it doesn't happen again. You should be able to get a piece of glass cut to fit as a lid at a local glass merchants/glaziers.

As for your tank, while your axie is in it, do 20-30% waterchange daily with water ager. While she's in the fridge just leave it but test every few days. This amount won't cause the tank to recycle. If it was 50% or more waterchange then yes it will cause it to recycle.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Teesha Vella on Saturday 03 March 2007 - 09:20 (#POST123284):</font>

it happened with all of them though!<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Yes it did happen with all of them. But as I said above, first you had pookie then introduced another axie without quarantining. You also prior to that were using feeder fish, which adds heaps of waste to a tank which could have contributed to ammonia spikes as well as worms. Then large waterchanges in short space of time, recycling tank and probably shock to the system.

If you ever decide to introduce another axie, always quarantine it for 30 days to ensure it doesn't make your current one sick /die. If you cannot quarantine for 30 days then its a waste of your time getting another axie as you will more than likely cause one/both axies illness and/or death by putting them together early cos you don't have the quarantine tanks/tubs, or patience to wait for the 30 day period to end. Sorry, if I come across as harsh, but I know you originally got Pookie so you could breed her as soon as possible to raise eggs for a project; and probably part of your reason for putting the two together apart from lack of spare tank was time factor for her to breed before the year was out.

Regarding the tubs you don't need to buy tubs you can use buckets, just make sure you can cover the tops.

thanx.

she is still alive and been in the fridge since yesterday. i put a thermometer in the fridge for about 10 minsa nd i got a reading of 8 degrees celcius.
i bought 2 containers...i'm a bit upset coz i bought them so i could stack them (to save room in my fridge) but no they are .5cm too tall so i could have bought the tall ones Oh well.
She did a poo....dunno if that is a good thing?
ok...should i feed her? or isnt it if the temp is below 10 degrees they just vomit it back up? thats in the book by peter scott that i read once.
well....so far so good. I'll keep you guys posted.

you could try\ a little food before the waterchange, or leaving a little overnight in container, if she doesn't eat it by morning then clean it out. I left some mosquito larvae in the fridge container with Stumpy, my sister's baby axie (my fridge is 6C ) and I was surprised as all were gone from his/her container this morning and . Our adult axies never eat at 6C when put in the fridge.

They usually poo or sometimes vomit (not always tho) in the fridge.

before i changes containers i tried to feed her beef heart (its all she eats pretty much!) once but she only opened her moutha little and hte food wouldnt fit, or too weakly, as if she was frozen stiff or lethargic......
but now i have tried to put in 4 worms...hopefully by the morning they will be gone! fingers crossed!
shes been in the fridge for 5 days so far....shoudl i take her out? is there a limit? shoudl i leave her in a fortnight? thats my plan..... she doesnt apear to have bruising or any injuries from her jump/fall, but she seems to be thin! She was a little thin before i put her in...( it was 22 temps coz of summer). but i think now shes thinner....i can see her hip bones pokeing out. hEr skin doesnt seem to be peeling so i put a small tiny pinch (about 6 granules) of aquarium salt in her tub. is this doing good? it says it relieves stress and improves healing?

her fin receeded...will it regrow, if she is metamorphing can she reverse from it?

if you have an older axie her fin may not regrow or as much as before. Our 4 year olds have very small fins, two of them had been in very poor water conditions (high ammonia,etc) They have very little gill filaments (it just looks like stubble on their gill stubs) and a barely visible fin, compared to our 18month old axies; they were also thin and very sick looking.

I really don't think she is metamorphing. How old is she? Most axies known to metamorph tend to be under a year old in age.

Leave her in the fridge for a while longer.

Have you tested your water conditions of your tank?

shes about 7 years old
i tested the conditions before while she was still in it...and there was less thn.1 ammonia nd no nitrite....it seemed fine....the only thing it might be is the chemicals themselves....might be afe for fish but not axies? thats all i can think of.
no ive actualyl been really busy wiht work to change hte water yet. i might do it tonight and only add ager....i totally forgot about the tank.
im so tired and been workign and at school full on...but i was plannign to have he rin the fridge for 2 weeks so i still have time to change it.
she did another poo and hasnt eaten any of the worms i put in her tub yet.

Test the water before doing the waterchange. If you do change the water, just do partials. The partial waterchanges should remove chemicals without totally undoing your cycle/cycling tank.

Do you prepare your bucket of water beforehand or do you add the water directly in tank then the ager? Just that if you're busy with study etc.. sometimes its easier doing the buckets/tubs first thing in the morning with ager if you're up early enough or at night before going to bed and leave it in the same room as the tank. = this ensures the water is the same room temperature as tank as well as allowing the water to degas.

You could easily leave her in the fridge and just test her tankwater every few days.

(Message edited by kapo on March 09, 2007)

Hi Teesha, My petal and Stevie were the same and we are in drought in NSW too, I reckon its the water quality that we are drinking. I dont know what the water people are puting in our water but sometimes it looks pale yellow in colour and I get stomach upsets. Then when water is clear again my tummy is fine. I have sent emails to different agencies but no response yet.
Im just thinking that your axies have been fine until lately when we are in drought.
It seems we try all the usual remedies but our poor little fellas stay ill.

i prepare the water before hand in a bucket. i then siphon out a bucket... then put the new one in...so its waiting for 5 mins or so. but normally i change a couplde of buckets so i pull out 2, put a bucket in, then fill another bucket and pull in ( i add ager to the bucket-then fill with water so its mixed in well.
yep shes still in the fridge...doing well..seems alittle inactive..i guess the water si quite cool. its freezing when i touch it!
i have set up a bucket after i changed the water for the next time i change it...but i dont do it all the time...we have room issues!
hmmm- it could be that, we are in stage 4 water restrictions...maybe reachign the bottom of the damn where all the silt is??? That could be.....
but i dont think so im pretty sure my axies didnt all die in summer so yeh....
i wish it was then i wouldnt feel so guilty!

ok, ive changed some of the main tank water and the worms that were there seemed to have declined rapidly in her abscence. i put a fish in there to cycle it a bit before she goes back in.i'm going to remove a bucket of water a day and put her back on sunday. I think she needs alot of feeding!! she is very thin (not too boney though- ive seen thinner) and her toes are VERY black...either its frostbite or shes in breeding condition....i think its the latter!
so she seems happy- and hungry. i gave her worms and she's munched and killed them, but i think she only swallowed one....if any.
so how do i put her back on sunday? do i take her out of the fridge and leave her out until the tub reaches room tempurature and thenput ehr back so the temp change isnt too much? coz i doubt i just toss her in!
i will be feeding her twice a day when she goes back...she needs to gain lots of weight! good thing the pet shop is haveing a half price sale on frozen foods! i think from now on i wll catch her, put her in a tub to feed and then put ehr back so the main tank stays clean, coz sometimesd it is messy!

If she's an albino/golden or leuc and has black toes then yeah, showing her sexual maturity/age. if she's dark wildtype and has dark toetips, may be the temp of the fridge, ours occasionally do this (cos ours is 5C - leucs toes go pale/wildtypes dark).

When you take her out leave it in the same room as tank to warm up before placing back in (I'm sure you wud anyway).

if your tank is still cycling when you put her back in just continue with the daily 20-30% waterchanges, and it will keep water parameters safe for her. Temperature will be other thing to watch.

Sounds like she's getting there though

yes shes a golden albino.
Ok i took her out of the fridge on sunday. so she's been 2 days out. Ive noticed her gills are way more longer and fluffier- must have adjusted coz of lack of current in her tub in the fridge? Kinda good now though so she's under less stress in the main tank.
she is terribly skinny though and i tried and tried to feed her but she WONT eat! i will continue to persist! she's wasted a good 5 beef heart squares (once they defrost they tunn into mush so i have to throw it out.) But i fed her in another contianer so the main tank wouldn't be polluted.
yes i left the tub out for the whole day and then i put her in the tank.
Her fin seems to be a tad longer....which is less receeded, which is a good thing im sure!
its just her weight now! She seems all good to go otherwise.
i kept a fish in her tank to keep the tank cycled while she was out. Probably the fish had less waste then her but i stopped doing water changes to keep up the ammonia a bit and then changed the water before i added mr. fishy. He is now back in his tank and she is in hers-obviously.
are there any tricks to help her to eat? I feel like puttting earth worms in there for her but....they will burry in the gravel!
thanx for al ur info. The water has onyl got water ager added! :>

What is your NITRATE reading. When you clean the tank do you clean the substrate or siphon out all the water?