Keeping head out of water

mischa · Nov 3, 2006

Hi everyone, I am concerned about 'pickles' who keeps swimming to the surface, sticking his head out and wiggling around frantically for at least 15 seconds at a time, then taking a gulp of air before just floating around the surface (I think the floating might be gas). Pickles regularly goes up for air after he eats and occassionally during the day, but this is very different. Should I be concerned?

All water tests came back fine and temperature is 18c.

Also, he has a translucent shiny white coat over his body, is this normal?

jodi · Nov 3, 2006

Hi Mischa

I can't help with your question, but I live not far from the Coast and wonder how you are keeping the water at 18c?

mischa · Nov 4, 2006

Hi Jodi,

we rotate frozen bottles of frozen water throughout the day when its hot, keep him in a cool room, and keep the tank open and uncovered.

My partner seems to think he is floating and sticking his head out because his gills has been nibbled, is there anything we can do to help heal him?

kapo · Nov 4, 2006

what other companions does he have in the tank?

mischa · Nov 4, 2006

there were feeder fish but we removed them yesterday - they were with him for around 5 weeks. We also have smallish pebbles and plants.

(Message edited by pickles_mum on November 04, 2006)

mischa · Nov 4, 2006

we have just moved him into a bucket with very shallow water (from his tank) so that he doesn't stress himself trying to stay near the top for oxygen. Also, he is not eating at all.

We are going to do an entire tank clean out - remove small pebbles and replace with larger ones and remove the plants to make sure the environment is 100% for him. We will do a 30% water change with this as well.

kapo · Nov 4, 2006

Don't do an entire tank clean! If the water is fine, then just remove the pebbles. Better to just have no substrate or sand. Gunk and waste gets trapped underneath pebbles and large river rocks. Doing a complete tank change will do more harm than good, so its good you're doing a 30% change. Plants should be okay. Do daily changes on his bucket so ammonia doesn't build up. It could have been the feeder fish nibbling at his gills that was the cause, the best companions for axies are other axies IMO. What else does he eat? What size is he? If up to 15cm feed daily, over 15cm feed every 2 days, 20cm+ every 3/4 days (dependent on appetite, but bear in mind axies - some anyway, will eat often if given a chance)

mischa · Nov 4, 2006

Thanks Kapo. He is about 15cm (lost my ruler!) and we have been feeding him daily. We feed him bait fish that we thaw, scale, debone and cut into small pieces. We then hand feed it to him and he really likes it (usually!). He stopped moving for quite a while but he seems a lot better since moving him into the bucket, he is moving around more and not floating or going for air as much.

His gills now look like toothbrushes, and he has lost about 40% of his fluffy bits. He never had much fluffy stuff on his gills, so I didn't notice this until my partner pointed it out.

Would it be beneficial if we slowly lower the temperature to put more oxygen in the water for him and slow his metabolism while he's not eating?

jennifer · Nov 4, 2006

Keeping him cooler and adding more oxygen to the water certainly can't hurt (as long as you don't add so much bubbling that this becomes stressful).

The behaviour you described initially (swimming frantically at the surface) is generally a symptom of some kind of stress. Any ideas what may have been causing this?

I would recommend giving him a more varied diet. Pure fish can have some vitamin deficiencies. For ideas, see:
http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/foods.shtml

cori · Nov 4, 2006

I had the exact same problem with my golden albino,
I was reading somewhere about signs of morphing (staying near the surface, trying to "get out", change in colour, reduction of gills).

So I moved Pumpkin to a smaller tank with a land area he could easily crawl onto. He stayed in there for about a week and would regularly throughout the day beach him self on the land and try and stand up, not the most gracefull look in the world I might add.

Anyways after around a week he lost interest in the land and spent more time in the water, so i moved him back to the bigger much deeper tank and he is now fine and the behaviour has stopped, His gills are much bigger now and he seems happier in water.

Hope that helps,

Regards Eastern_axle

mischa · Nov 5, 2006

Thanks for all your help. We got him some brine shrimp and bloodworm blocks today and he still isn't eating. He is in his bucket, where we can keep him at a constant temperature and doing daily water changes. He is pooping, just not eating! He seems sad

We are taking the gravel out of his tank today and replacing with sand and river rocks. We want to create more places for him to hide, as his tank has been pretty bare. Will keep 70% of water and cycle for a few days before putting him back in. Do you think this is OK? I know you said no substrate, but we originally had none and pickles got very upset because he couldn't grip on the floor - so I would prefer to have something.

I am not sure what the stress would be from, he is normally very active and has been fine since we got him (8 weeks ago) and nothing changed before he started his weird behaviours - although the very tip of his tail started to curl about a week ago. Thanks to this forum we have been very aware of water chemical levels and temperature. We think it might be from the feeder fish nibbling at him over time and his gills getting hurt from that.

(Message edited by pickles_mum on November 05, 2006)

jennifer · Nov 5, 2006

The tail tip curling is another general symptom of stress. Other possible sources of stress are warm temperature (I know the temp is increasing in AU this time of year) and rapid water flow from an overzealous filter. Just some food for thought. Hope he improves.

mischa · Nov 6, 2006

Thanks Jennifer, my partner is here all day and he just told me that it did get to 22 degrees in pickles tank once or twice so we are being extra careful to keep it between 16 and 18 now. We know its not from the water flow because we had the pump blowing up in the tank to aerate the water and to reduce those water flow probs. Maybe it was the higher temps?

He is still not eating. We have put him back in his tank and he is staying in his hidey hole (we didn't do big tank change as mentioned earlier - just added place to hide, cleaned substrate and kept about 70% water). He did a big yawn type thing just before - opened his mouth as wide as it goes for about 3 seconds. Does that mean anything?

cori · Nov 6, 2006

He he he,
Axie's yawn, just like we do!
It is a funny little sight!

Regards Eastern_axle

mischa · Nov 7, 2006

He still isn't eating. It has been 4 days now. We have tried his normal 'fish', the brine shrimp and the bloodworms. He is still trying to get out of the water (floating in the top of the plants, sticking half of his head out). Temp is 17, PH is 7 ammonia is <0.025, and nitrite is <0.1. I don't have a nitrate tester.

I am really worried. Any suggestions?

kapo · Nov 10, 2006

How often are you doing your water changes since he was put back in? Try not to do too big a waterchange all at once,that just causes probs. With those readings it looks like your tank is either cycling or maybe an ammonia spike, would be curious to see what the nitrate readings were if you had a tester.

mischa · Nov 10, 2006

We haven't done a water change since we put him back in, and planned on doing a 30% change tomorrow. He is eating now, but his gills are still losing their feathers and the transparent part of his tail is shrinking. He seems a lot happier, more relaxed and swimming around as normal now. Also he is spending equal time on the bottom of the tank as in the plants with his head poking out.

Do you think he could be morphing?

mischa · Nov 10, 2006

I just checked water readings again and ammonia 0, nitrite 0, but PH is on alkaline side - about 7.2 - so I did my water change just then (about 30%).

What was it about the readings that made you think the tank may be cycling or an ammonia spike? To clarify my earlier readings, the reading scales don't have 0, the lowest reading it has is 0.025 (light yellow) for ammonia or 0.1 (light pink) for nitrite. Since both tests came back clear, I just put that it was "less than" those readings - but I think they were 0 because they were clear.

I also forgot to add that we added an air rock (which he loves) and we have 5 plants in the tank, which I heard is good for nitrate levels. Will be getting a nitrate tester tomorrow.

(Message edited by pickles_mum on November 10, 2006)

kapo · Nov 10, 2006

Sorry, mischa didn't notice the < symbols which is why I thought there might be a possible "cycle"/ammonia spike. I was reading the figures without the less than sign.

I have the freshwater Master test kit and the readings/colour differ:
eg:
Ammonia 0ppm or mg/L (yellow) - no ammonia
Trace of ammonia 0.25ppm (light lime green)...

Nitrite 0ppm (blue) - no nitrite
Trace of nitrate 0.25pm (light purply colour)

Also regarding PH levels, a pH of 6.5 to around 8.0 is acceptable for axolotls, but 7.4 to 7.6 is probably ideal.

mischa · Nov 10, 2006

No worries, I don't know anything really about cycling and stuff so I thought my readings may have indicated something.

Thanks for the PH info, because we do find the PH is usually in low 7s. Any ideas about the symptoms he is still showing?

Keeping head out of water

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