OH NO! skin peeling, possible fungus?

Poor amigo is sick!
He has his leg curled under him and the skin is peeling off severly. There is a red tinge to the foot.
There are white bits hanging off near his feathers and on the leg.
ever since I got him (about 2 months ago) the feathery bits werent in very good shape - small and tattered.
Ive given him non iodised salt baths for 10mins every night (can someone verify dosage?)
He is currently living in the fridge (mum doesnt like it and everyone else thinks im wierd but anyway!).
Is there anything else i can do in the meantime?

Going on the information ive gathered so far, i have done my best with his habitat:
43L tank
Ive tested pH and it is neutral. will get other test kits asap but what is the best way to control the quality in the meantime?
There is a filter on the lowest setting suitable for the aquarium size.
His tank gets a little warm sometimes (i dont have a thermometer but i would describe it as luke warm to touch) despite cold weather and im not sure why, i dont have the lid on anymore as i figured itd trap heat.
Water change wasnt as frequent as it should have been due to lack of knowledge but ive gathered that i should do a 20% change every week?
Any other treatment, diagnosis, advice, request for more info much appreciated.
Hopefully he will fight this thing, i love the little guy!
picture:


(Message edited by shinydragon on June 02, 2005)

N - You have started off on the right track. Salt baths and the fridge.

Salt bath should be 2 liters of water and 2 - 3 teaspoons of salt. Salt bath him twice a day for 10 min. Spread them out so it is like 8 AM and 8 PM or something similar.

Keep him in the fridge. The water you salt bath him in should be the same temp as the water in the fridge so keep extra water in the fridge to use for salt baths and to change his water with.

You need a test kit that will let you test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. You need a thermometer. Luke warm water sounds too warm to me. Warm water invites fungus infections.

Normal tank maintenance is a water change of 20% each week, vacuum the substrate and wipe down the inside of the glass. Check your filter and see if its media need changed.

Do not buy any medication at the pet store unless you consult the page listed below first for medications that are known to be toxic to axolotls:

http://www.axolotl.org/health.htm

scroll to the bottom of that page.

I would stick to the salt baths and the fridge for a while before resorting to other medication.

thankyou for your straightforward and sensible advice cynthia! (but it has inspired me to ask more questions!)
Ive been keeping the saltwater the same temp as described, so thats good.
are there special thermometers to buy?
How can i keep the water cooler? i read about the "ice bottle idea" but it seems to get warmer at night (i think its the central heating above nearby) and the constant temp changes when the ice melts (when im at work, asleep etc) sound dangerous
How do i know when the filter media needs changing? approx how often is that? (its new so i dont think thats not an issue yet)
I nearly bought medication at the petshop on advice from the employee there...lucky i had common sense enough to check it out first!
hes was moving around a bit better last night, still wont eat though.

You just need an aquarium thermometer, pet stores usually carry several different types.

There was a rash of over heated axolotls from Australia a couple of months ago on this forum. You can go back through the older posts for more ideas. The ones I remember are: floating containers of ice in the tank, setting up a fan to blow across the top of the water, lowering the tank to the floor, moving the tank to the basement or cooler part of the house, buying a chiller.

I usually change the carbon in my filters every 5 to 6 weeks. I have large external filters that hold 3 types of media. The frequency you need to change your media depends on how large the filter is and how much water it is filtering. On my small frog tank the media needs changed every 2 to 3 weeks as it is an "old school" small corner filter driven by an air pump.

In the fridge it may not want to eat very often at all. But offer it food before or after salt baths so it gets food if it is hungry.

OH this is scary and bad
His entire leg has peeled away and he has a skeleton leg
On the upside after all this time he finally ate something last night (i literally jumped for joy and ran in to wake up my brother!)
Im seriously freaked out and i can only imagine how my axy feels! what can i do!!??

That's terrible N! I really hope some people can help you further on this site, I don't know what to tell you my self, I am still new to the Axolotl world. Perhaps mabye take him to the vet? I know others will give you better advise. Can you post pictures of his leg? perhaps that will help aid others in helping you. Good luck!

N - Have you been doing salt baths all this time?
It has been 18 days since we first heard from you.
Did it ever show any improvement?

Try and find some Furan 2 it is a tropical fish medication. If you can not find that I would try to get some Mercurochrome.


Mercurochrome is an antiseptic/disinfectant available at pharmacies and can be quite effective when treating bacterial and fungal problems. The Indiana University Axolotl Colony recommends adding just a few drops to tint the water orange, and change the water frequently. 2-4 ppm (parts per million, i.e. 2 to 4 grams per 1000 litres of water) is the dosage recommended by Peter W. Scott.

refer to http://www.axolotl.org/health.htm
for more info on medications that may be available in your area. Take special note of the medicaions to avoid (they are at the bottom of that page) as they are toxic to axolotls.








(Message edited by cynorita on June 20, 2005)

Thanks for all the answers you are giving me Cynthia, im lucky there is such a great helpful person at this terrible time!
Ammonia: been treated
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0
ph: 7.0
Water temp: 18
No improvement, steady degradation.
I have just recently stopped the saltbaths and put him back in his tank. His foot has completely disappeared! some of his leg is also missing. Im really scared for the little guy. Hasnt eaten again since last post. I dont even know what is wrong.
could a fungus destroy an entire previously healthy leg?
Is this aformentioned treatment suitable for whatever this crazy thing is?
is he in pain?
will it keep eating into him?

Everywhere said they were so easy to look after, this is terrible!

oh yeah and how do i vaccuum up "substrate"
p.s. what is substrate

substrate is whatever you have put on the bottom of the tank, like sand, gravel, etc. You don't vaccuum up the substrate itself (at least not on purpose), but rather the waste in and around it.

Particularly bad fungus can eat away at tissue. I'd continue the salt baths, and start him on Furan 2. You can pick it up at any aquarium store. Good luck, and keep us posted.

N - You said Ammonia "been treated"? Was the ammonia level high and you used ammo-lock or something?

As Brian mentioned I would change to medication it is obvious that the salt isn't working. Furan 2 should be available at your local fish store. Do not let them talk you into something else if they do not have furan 2. Take note of what is available and look at http://www.axolotl.org/health and make sure the medication is on the safe list at the bottom of that page.

You may also want to consult the medications listed here: http://www.indiana.edu/~axolotl/axolotls/faq2.html#antibiotics

If you have gravel in the bottom of your tank you will need a syphon/gravel vacuum. It too should be offered at most pet stores.

So the theory is its a bad fungus?
so continue salt baths, and put him back into the fridge again or is it ok to keep him in the tank?
Yes i used ammo-lock because the ammonia level was high.
I shall see if i can find Furan 2 at the pet shop during the week.
I don't have gravel, i have large flat rocks at the bottom of the tank.
He ate again yesterday
(thanks again for help, much appreciated )
Shall keep you posted!

N - The high ammonia and poor water condition is probably what caused the sluffing skin.

If the tank is a new set up(under 60 days) You need to let the tank cycle and do not add anymore ammo-lock. Keep the axolotl out of the tank and in clean cool water.

If the tank has been set up for longer than 60 days it sounds like it is badly in need of maintenance. You need to clean the substrate and change 20% of the water every week. Remove uneaten food within an hour, and keep droppings sucked out with a turkey baster.

Again Keep the axolotl out of the tank until you have zero ammonia (without adding ammo-lock), zero nitrite and low nitrate.

I would try some furan 2 at this point because he has now lost a limb.I worry about an infection that it can not recover from taking hold.

Keep up the salt baths twice a day until you find some furan 2. Let us know if you are able to locate some.

I am glad he ate. Keep him in the fridge if you can not keep him in a smaller container of water that will stay under 20 C

Before i put him back in the tank (about 2 weeks ago)i did a full water change. This is when i tested for ammonia and when i added the ammo lock.
I have been doing the 20% water change weekly.
Should i do a full water change and this time wait until there is zero ammonia without adding ammo lock because doesnt the ammonia still show up when youve used ammo lock on the tests?
I will check out the petshop today for some furan 2 (and a turkey baster but i dont think the petshop will have that!)
So if im putting him into a smaller container i shouldnt get water from the tank, i should set up some new water? but wont that have ammonia also?
I know its a lot of questions but i want to do the best possible thing! i hope i put them clearly enough. thanks again ^_^

N - Do not use water from the tank. Use fresh dechlorinated water in a container 1 gallon or larger and keep it clean and cool. Change the water every day, if it gets messy change it twice a day if you need to.

Continue the salt baths until you see if you can find the furan 2.

You should never change all the water in an aquarium. Your tank has not cycled properly and that is why you are getting the high ammonia readings. Removing all the water makes the cycle start over or really sets it back and puts you into a loop of never finishing the cycle.

Once the tank has cycled it will be safe for your axolotl to return to the tank. Cycling takes 30 days or more.

There are lots of articles on the web about tank cycling. Here is just one of of many:
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/biologicalcycle/a/nitrogencycle.htm
at the very least please read that so you know something about cycling and how it works.

You need a test kit that will test for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph.

You need to stop doing water changes on your tank until it has finished cycling. Stop using the ammo-lock.

Once the tank has cycled you can start regular maintenance by doing 20% water changes every week, keep the uneaten food cleaned out as well as the droppings on a daily basis.

Is he looking any better? Is the fungus clearing?

Thanks Cynthia i gave that a good read. I can't believe no one told me this before! Pet shops need to upgrade their customer service I'm thinking.
I shall need to track down a suitable container to keep him in. Havent found the Furan 2 in the 2 pet shops and aquarium shop ive checked out so far, I'll keep looking.
What I dont understand is if i get fresh water from the tap (adding water conditioner and ager) wont it be the same as the tank water only worse because it hasn't been cycled at all?
His leg is not looking better but it doesnt seem to be getting worse, there isnt any loose skin at the moment and no bits and pieces of lost leg bits floating on top of the water like before...(yuk)
I have those test kits.
He is eating so that's relieving.

(Message edited by shinydragon on June 28, 2005)

Hello N, just thought I'd pop in.

What you are trying to do now since the tank is not cycled is basically keeping the water clean and ammonia free with very frequent water changes while the tank matures. Meanwhile your tank will go through the process and then mature to the point that with some help on your part the ammonia/nitrite will stay low.

Hope this helps.

N - glad to hear he is eating, that is a good sign. The tap water doesn't (shouldn't) have ammonia in it when it comes from the tap. The ammonia is created by waste from the axolotl. So if you keep his container with new clean water from the tap each day, and keep him under 20C he should be ok.

If you have 2 containers it is easier to change. I bought containers that just fit across the kitchen sink so they sit nicely. If you have 2 of them you can fill the clean one up, remove it from the sink and then slowly pour the container with the axolotl in it down the sink until you just have the axolotl and a little bit of water. Pour him into the clean container of water and you do not have to net him or touch him, which is easier on him. Once every 2 or 3 days wash and dry the container to remove bacteria we don't want him getting infected.

What have you been giving him salt baths in? Could he live in that container while your tank cycles?

Speaking of salt baths, I would keep giving them to him twice a day. Now that he is out of the tank water he should start to improve.

Now that you have the test kits for your tank; test for ammonia and nitrite every other day (or everyday if you wish). You may want to add your axolotls poo to the tank to build back up some ammonia since you changed all the water not long ago. Then just keep testing and waiting. At cooler temps it takes longer for tanks to cycle so be patient.

Thanks as usual Cynthia!
Hey Joseph, nice to see another person taking interest in Amigos ills
OK, i shall get right on that (back to salt baths and fresh water in a container everyday).
The container i had him in the fridge and for the baths was too small.
If i have already used ammo lock won't it still test positive for ammonia (i read something like that on the label)or will that eventually disappear?
I couldnt see it on that list of medications you linked me to but the closest ive been able to track down to furan 2 so far is Pimafix is this suitable?
What if the problem isnt a fungus?


(Message edited by shinydragon on June 29, 2005)

N - I thought you have done a water change since you used the ammo-lock? What did your test kit say the ammonia level was?

At any rate don't use the ammo-lock anymore, you WANT the ammonia to start the cycle in the aquarium.

When you remove the axolotls waste from the smaller container put the waste in the aquarium to help the ammonia cycle. Do this for a week or so.

I think salt baths are better than pimafix. It has been mentioned in this forum that pimafix can cause liver damage.

Is the axolotl looking better? How does the area around his leg look? If he appears to be making progress I would stay with salt baths twice a day and clean cool water in his smaller container. I would maybe try some Mercurochrome.

You should be able to find some Mercurochrome it is a human medication for cuts and scrapes.

Mercurochrome is an antiseptic/disinfectant available at pharmacies and can be quite effective when treating bacterial and fungal problems. The Indiana University Axolotl Colony recommends adding just a few drops to tint the water orange, and change the water frequently. 2-4 ppm (parts per million, i.e. 2 to 4 grams per 1000 litres of water) is the dosage recommended by Peter W. Scott.

There is no fast cure, healing takes time, be patient.

If the problem isn't a fungus the salt baths, Mercurochrome and clean water are still probably going to be beneficial.