Blisters ????

Hi,

I hope one of you knows whats wrong with my axo. he's gotten some *blisters* on his gills and I am worried, that he is seriously ill. here is a pic where the blisters are visible.
http://www.astro.airman.org/img/div/blaeschen.jpg
did anyone have a prob like that before, or is nothing to worry about?

the water tested great, temp is about 20° he eats and is active

I bathed him in a salt bath (thought it might be a fungus)

he eats only pellets during the hot month, cause I dont wanna take a chance of getting salmonella or something like that.

thanks for your answers
yoko

airbubbles? Does your tank have a lot of aeration?

hi kaysie,
thanx for the answer

well since it is rather hot I did put a fan above the tank to cool it down. if I turn it off the water temp will rise to like 29° (I have an empty tank where I testet temp differences), which would be way to hot.

is this something I need to change?

kregs
yoko

I dont know if thats what would cause it, but if you've got say an airstone and a filter on the tank, this could cause lots of dissolved gasses in the tank. according to IACUC, "Gas bubble disease is seen in aquatic frogs when the water is supersaturated with air. Bubbles may be seen in the skin webs and foot webs, but death is usually from secondary septicemia. Careful monitoring of pumps and pressurized water systems should prevent this condition." (http://www.iacuc.arizona.edu/training/xenopus/disease.html) Even though this is for ACF's, I'm sure its similar to axies.

The fan over the tank is definately a good idea if the tank is that warm. But I cant see how that would cause this.

Question: because I don't know! If the were air bubbles wouldn't they be dislodged if Karin gently stokes a gill branch. I know this is risking causing the animal pain if they are blisters. But surely it would check if KCs suggestion is correct?

Ah just thinking out loud. KCs suggestion is that the bubbles are actually within or below the skin or the animal. In which case they wouldn't dislodged.

I am just thinking for blisters to form; Isn't it more likely there would have to be some irritant or the axie would have to be allergic or very sensitive to something in the water?

Supersaturation must be quite an unusual situation. Lots of plants/aeration at surface, possibly even some pressure & cold temperature to keep gases disolved? Again thinking out loud but I find the idea curious. Anyone definitely know how it occurs? Or what the problem is with Karin's axie?

Maybe it's the light within the photo but the flanks look very pink too, to me.

he does NOT look happy :/ what's the specs of your water? pH, ammonia? try and keep the temperature as low as possible - between 15 and 20 degrees C is best. if the temp is 29 degrees, he might be boiling alive in there! :/ (god i hope not). a good way of getting the temp down is to float some frozen bottles of water in the tank, just keep them coming and it should drop.

whatever caused the blisters, it was fatal

here what happened:

the blisters *opened* in the early mornin hrs by themselves and the gills turned a really dark red.
after that he seemed better. when I got up however he was dead and on the spot where the blisters have been it looked as if there where lil bloodclots



a vetfriend has never seen anything like this before, neither a breeder that I consulted as well.

especially since the blisters only occured at the gills.


@mikki
it was the light, his colour was normal, the only strange thing where the blisters. I dont think it was air in them, it looked like they where fliud filled. there are not a lot of plants in the tank, and the the vetfriend told me, that in case of gas bubble disease, the whole body and the other axos would have been affected as well. he thinks that he has gotten some bacterial infection, but no clue to what it could be. so we have to watch the others closely and at first sign try some antibiotics, since this stuff is killing quick.
thanks for your help mikki and kaysie
@katy
dont take this the wrong way, but your post comes across kinda hurtfull. if I would have thought he would look happy, I would have not asked for help, as I stated the temp where 21° at its highpoint, so I DIDN´T BOIL HIM ALIVE!!!!!!
maybe I am overreacting cause it does hurt to lose a pet without knowing the cause, if so I appologise to you.

kregs
karin

Im sorry for your lost Karin.. my heart goes out to you i just lost my axie, with out turely knowing the cause. but my others are now doin well.

Just keep and very close eye on the all.

thanx for your words kim, its hard not knowing what happened cause it lets a fear linger that it will happen again

a few month ago a baby died cause I fed it some contaminated worms
but at least we knew what happened and never fed worms again... with the pellets all seemed great

a friend has told me, that albinos have a weak immune system and that I didnt do anything wrong, but I still feel guilty....

Dont feel guilty. There wasnt anything you could have done.

Sorry to hear of your loss Karin. But thanks for sharing the information with us, we all have learned a little more. Sorry we couldn't help anymore. Sorry you had a problem with worms too, mine love them but I buy them from a bait shop.

KC I saw something that Ed posted on gas bubble disease on another thread. It seems you need cooler temps and some way to over saturate, like a venturi nozzle. Some of the systems I install use venturis which work by entraining air (or another fluid) into the low pressure stream. You get excellent mixing and velocity profiles. I know that the last corner mounted filter Hydor, I think, used a venturi action but I don't think it is anywhere near powerful enough to oversaturate. The currents it caused were a nuisance though. That's whyI am back on undergravel type. Simple airstone and lifting tube for me

@mikki,

I used to buy the worms also from a bait shop, I am not talking about earthworms, but those wee lil funky things called *tubifex* (dunno the english word). A vet told me, that they are often full of bacteria, cause they are often taken from like sewage drains and water recyclin plants.

its not that easy to feed the axos proper, cause they shouldnt eat anything from the sea (cause of the iodine), nothing from mammals (cause they can not digest) nothing with high amounts of proteins etc. wax maggots are bad as well, cause they may dig through the stomach....
I often have to travel rather far in order to get food for the bunch, get a bit here and another there thank god for the shipped pellets

regs
karin

Hi Karin, check out another recent thread in axie help called "Please help with feeding". You will find a whole discourse on various foods to try and recommendations from contributors.

But as always you need variety for healthy animals. The other maxim is everything in moderation.

karin mikki> i heard that the worms that are collected from bait shops are heavily infested with paracites and diseases and what-not. i would avoid the bait shop altogether and get em from a pet shop and start your own little breeding thing so you can have your own endless supply of disease free earthies or tubifex. i havent tried it but i have read about it in a lot of newt/salamadner books

I also get my worms from a bait shop, as none of my pet shops near me sell them.

All good bait shops should know where there worms come from.

My local does and they have a local breeder, and they also sell them to people for feeding to birds.

Or on the other hand just ask where they come from, most places are friendly and happy to help if you ask nicely.

Also, its practically impossible for the 'do-it-yourself'er' to breed nightcrawlers, as they breed deep in the ground. Red wigglers are easy to breed, as with leaf worms (which I prefer). Although red wigglers are sometimes refused by picky animals.

oh god no, i'm so sorry i didn't mean to be hurtful or mean to say you were being a bad parent at all! i was just trying to figure out what could ahve possibly caused such a painful-looking thing, not pointing fingers :/ i apologise profusely for sounding in any way nasty.

i'm so sorry for your loss, i wish there was something we could have done

@heather
well the death of my axo *lorenza* has proofed your statement to me.

frozen food they dont like much and a couple of times I gotten some nasty lookin clams, that I threw away.

@katy
thanks for saying that I overreacted cause I was so griefed and confused.
you all couldnt help the poor lil albert, but you all have helped me getting myself back together.

many folks smile when they hear one is grieving over an *animal like that*, many people dont even give their sallies names. its good to know, they are more folks out there that actually LOVE those creatures

thanx all
karin

my house wouldn't be the same without juju and aztec, the blighters *g*