Newbie - big problems

hey guys im having massive trouble. my water is a yuck color after a few days. my axies have curved thingos on their heads which i know means a stress related problem. i have so many unclear questions. i have had 2 of these die in the last 2 weeks.why so? i have a filter but i read that its too stressful as it squirts water back into the water from 1cm above water level, it has nothing under the rocks in terms of filtration. i have an airstone. i have tested chlorine and ph levels, both of which are fine. i do not know much about ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and how to control them. they do feed well on beef liver until they get sick. i have had the same water in the tank for 4 days now, and it murky. whats my best method for cleaning, and i also dont know what cycling water is, people talk like its more complicated than just changing water. how much water should i change and how often? i am worried i dont want any more of them to die. i could ask a million questions right now. whats the best thing to do,i feel i do not know enough and dont want to hurt these anymore. plz help

You cycle water by 20%,the way I clean the tank is use a syphon that cleans the substrate as well,you can get them from petstores.

So basically when the water is about halfway,stop.
And you should do it every couple of weeks.

Are you using a filter at the moment or just the airstone?
Because if you're using just the airstone that would be the answer to the murky water.
If not,what sort of filter is it?

Perhaps the problem lies with the substrate you have.

Have you visited. www.axololt.org
Also, link for cycling: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/cyclingEDK.shtml

Cycling is establishing good bacteria to cope with things like ammonia and nitrite; but first it has to establish. Basically, from the day you put your axies in the tank, started feeding them is when you started cycling the tank.

If ammonia and nitrite levels are too high they are controlled through regular (daily if necessary) waterchanges of about 20-30% of your tankwater.




Anyway, since your good bacteria isn't established yet, you have to monitor the water quality, ie use Freshwater test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, every day or two days (probably daily during this heat), and do daily/every two days 20-30% waterchanges to keep the levels from being too toxic (safe enuf for your axies to live in).

4 days - which means you should do a waterchange today/tonight to be on safe side (only 20-30% not complete waterchange); and if you don't have test kits for the 3 mentioned, then take a sample of water to your petshop and get them to test and give you the results. Meanwhile don't add any chemicals (ie to "fix ammonia levels") and do daily 20-30% waterchanges .

Regarding filter, do you have a hang over the back one, if you can adjust the water flow so it isn't as fast would be good. And also, tie something either around the water outlet flowing into tank, or put something beneath it so the flow hits it and is cut down a bit. No need to clean your filter.

How long is your tank cm/mm or inch measurement and were all the axies in the one tank when the others died?

How large are your axies and how often do you feed them? When feeding try not to stuff them too much, axies will tend to overeat if they're given the chance. As they're eating till they get sick then cut back how much you feed them. If you find any uneaten/regurgitated food in the tank try and remove it within an hour of feeding, otherwise it adds more waste to the tank.

Invest in a turkey baster, they are handy for picking up uneaten/regurgitated food and axie poo (when you find them before they disintegrate) and once your tank is cycled (takes several weeks).

What is your tank temperature - try and keep the tank below 24 degrees, which is stressful for axies, ideally below 20 degrees would be better. Use fan blowing across the surface to cool it down or frozen bottles of dechlorinated water (water treated with a dechlorinator/water ager/water conditioner to remove chlorine and chloramines) rotated (before one completely melts swap it for another frozen bottle). Don't use icecubes as it will cause fluctuating temperatures.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting emily nielsen on Friday 12 January 2007 - 06:55 (#POST117313):</font>

If not,what sort of filter is it?

Perhaps the problem lies with the substrate you have.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

i have a filter that sits in the water, with a plastic hose that lies approx 1 cm above water level squirting water back through 6 or 7 holes on the hose. i can raise or lower it or turn the hose to the side or whatever if need be. the substrates i have are small pebbles, small enough to swallow for the axies i guess, however not as fine as sand

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting Heihei on Friday 12 January 2007 - 23:45 (#POST117411):</font>

Regarding filter, do you have a hang over the back one, if you can adjust the water flow so it isn't as fast would be good. And also, tie something either around the water outlet flowing into tank, or put something beneath it so the flow hits it and is cut down a bit. No need to clean your filter.

How long is your tank cm/mm or inch measurement and were all the axies in the one tank when the others died?

How large are your axies and how often do you feed them? When feeding try not to stuff them too much, axies will tend to overeat if they're given the chance. As they're eating till they get sick then cut back how much you feed them. If you find any uneaten/regurgitated food in the tank try and remove it within an hour of feeding, otherwise it adds more waste to the tank.

Invest in a turkey baster, they are handy for picking up uneaten/regurgitated food and axie poo (when you find them before they disintegrate) and once your tank is cycled (takes several weeks).

What is your tank temperature - try and keep the tank below 24 degrees, which is stressful for axies, ideally below 20 degrees would be better. Use fan blowing across the surface to cool it down or frozen bottles of dechlorinated water (water treated with a dechlorinator/water ager/water conditioner to remove chlorine and chloramines) rotated (before one completely melts swap it for another frozen bottle). Don't use icecubes as it will cause fluctuating temperatures.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

the type of filter i have is in the post above. i would say my tank is probably 2-3 feet wide and a foot deep, and just under two feet tall. one of the axies was i nthe tank with the other one who died, and the water was real yuck. it sorta just happened in the space of a day. water went from ok to gross. my temperature is unknown atm because i am buying a thermometer today, but i would say it is adequate, as i always have the curtains shut and never hae too much light getting in there. only in late afternoons i open the curtains a tad. will check though. anything else i need to do? would a heater be worth getting. so i can steady the temperature during winter or anything, or is the main problem overheating the water?

(Message edited by arlov_animal on January 12, 2007)

no heater needed at all, axies prefer cooler temps and can survive in temps down to 5 degrees celcius. Keeping the curtains shut does cut down some of the heat, we aren't getting the heat like Aussie is at the moment but my sister's tanks are sitting at 20 degrees with the curtains closed and fans in the room, yours may be higher. \

regarding your filter turn the spraybar/hose towards the glass so the water runs down the glass.

also, advise you to read www.axolotl.org

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting arlov_animal on Friday 12 January 2007 - 23:51 (#POST117412):</font>

one of the axies was i nthe tank with the other one who died, and the water was real yuck. it sorta just happened in the space of a day. water went from ok to gross<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

What else do you have in your tank, for your tank to go really gross in a day, you may be overfeeding which adds to the ammonia; might also be too small. A 2ft tank is suitable for one axie, 3ft tank for 2 axies. Axies use floor space so a longer tank rather than higher tank is preferable.

The main problem is the tank is cycling. You do need a thermomenter, i can't say it's overheating till you have a thermometer. Read the cycling article link above. Since you're buying a thermometer you should also take a sample of tankwater to the petshop and get it tested for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (takes 5 minutes). Don't be persuaded to buy a quick fix to fix ammonia and or to speed up cycling. It won't help at all and you'll end up mucking your current cycling up. Also, never change the water 100%.

Do you have other companions in tank, fish, snails or whatever?

i do have two goldfish (the popped out eyes kind), however, they are large enough to have stopped nibbling on the axie's antennae type things. i just bought a water test kit, so I will post the results asap.}

ok i meausred the tank. its a 3 ft one. thermometer says 19 degrees.
ammonia 4
nitrate 0
nitrite 0.25

No wonder your tank looked yucky, goldfish are quite dirty and excrete a lot which adds to ammonia load in tank. If hungry fish will have a nibble at the gills. Axies are actually better companions on their own or with own kind. And as your axies get bigger you might find they'll try to eat the goldfish.



Have you done a waterchange at all? You'll probably need to do daily testing, since ammonia is so high (but expected with the goldfish waste and axies in tank), and daily 20-30% waterchanges. This should lower it but still allow it to cycle.

The other choice you could do is remove your axies and goldfish from the tank. Put them in two separate buckets or plastic bins/containers. And just let your tank cycle, it has the waste in it already, and no waterchanges will be needed on the tank, but test every 3/4 days and keep a record of it so you'll know when it's cycled. You will have to do daily waterchanges on the goldfish bucket and axie bucket.

How big are your axies (or how old, if known) and how many times a day or often do you feed them?

If your axies look sick or off, ie; too much floating, lopsided floating or upside down consider putting them in the fridge (icecream containers or some other plastic containers with lids will do).

(Message edited by heihei on January 13, 2007)

i have done waterchanges, and have bought a vacuum to get rid of yuckies at the bottom of the tank. what color is axie poo? im not sure if im vacuuming shatted food or regurgitated food. the turds look huge to be honest considering the animal. the axies do not float weird or anythign but do have a slight pale-ish look to their tails. the brown one is probably 15-18 cm while the other is 12-15cm. atm both look healthyish. i will do the cycling more tomorrow, and have done some in the last few days. i just want this water clear.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>Quoting arlov_animal on Saturday 13 January 2007 - 14:20 (#POST117483):</font>

im not sure if im vacuuming shatted food or regurgitated food. the turds look huge to be honest<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote> If it's regurgitated food, it will be the same size as what you feed them. Axie poo varies in colour, according to what you feed them, my axie babies only couple of inches long eat daphnia, brineshrimp, mozzy larvae, earthworm and bloodworm, so it's a mix of red (bw), orange (bs), black (mozzy) and brownish (earthworm). Haven't quite figured out daphnia, cos it's pale anyway. My sister's eat earthworms and have brownish baked been shaped poos, or empty looking wormskin poos. When they eat red meat which isn't often, (ox heart), sometimes it's a stringy dark poo (with ox liver - very dark stringy poo). Most of the worm poos disintegrate when you try and pick it up with a turkey baster or siphon/vacuum.

If you are feeding them in chunks, try and cut the meat into wormlike strips as it will be easier for them to digest. If you get a turkey baster it will help with picking up the regurged food or poo. '

With waterchanges try not to rush into doing too big a change, the murky/cloudy/yucky water will be due to the bacteria bloom (ammonia and nitrite); and will ease off as ammonia converts to nitrite and in turn converts to nitrate. So just the daily 20/30% changes and regular testing.

Try not to overfeed as well (think at that size once a day for the smaller one and every 2 days for the bigger one - my sisters are over 30cm and get fed every 3-4 days usually but this past week they've only been eating once a week.

sunday 14th
ammonia 2
nitrate 0.25
nitrite 0

does this sound reasonable people?

I can't remember nitrite and nitrate off hand but ammonia should be 0.

Sara, his tank's in the middle of cycling which is why he has those readings, and he's doing regular tests and waterchanges while his axies are in there.

(Message edited by heihei on January 14, 2007)

hey guys, just letting you know the cycling is working well and my water has cleared up a great deal. my ammonia levels are still up, but the axies seem fine as do the goldfish. cycling should fix the levels. also the fish are scared of the axies. if they continue to pollute the water i will take them out but at the moment they seem ok. it was just my knowledge that was below par. thanks alot for your help guys it seems to have worked!

you can fit a air filter to help with the extra ammonia eating bacteria and you can also cut back on feeding the fish as much they will only need to be fed every two to three days like axolotls (fish are more likely to die from overfeeding then starvation) goldfish and kio won't bother axies when they get to 4-5 inches this is because small goldfish seem to try to eat everything in sight. also feed the fish pellets not flakes as flake food is very messy and clouds the water fast.

oh! and fish kept in aquariums tend to get massive (the bigger the tank the bigger the fish) so best to stick to one or two.

i have moved the fish to another aquarium now so that is no longer an issue.todays reading
ammonia 0
nitrite 2
nitrate 0

any good?