We NEED help!! We are new owners who are doing it all wrong!

Hello everyone
My name is liesa and my husband is royston we have joined today to hopefully help us out!
We have two axy's(as we call them) one is called scrambles, he is black and one is called salmon she is pink!
We bought them from a pet shop that was absolutely useless at giving us advice.
We really don't know whether we are going about this the right way at all so please be gentle.
We have a 18" tank that has large gravel on the bottom some big rocks and slate for them to hide, no plants and a small filter that sits in the tank being held down by gravel and it has this cotton wool type stuff in.
we feed them pellets from our hands and ham. and occasionally blood worms. they love being fed by hand and love to suck on our fingers.
but! we have a terrible problem with cloudy water. within a week it is cloudy i use a net to clean and a turkey baster. and tend to feed by hand to stop it settling. and I know you will all shout but we have been changing the water every week because of how cloudy it is.We haven't got a testing kit and we think our filter is <font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font>. lol

please help us with easy words and get us helping salmon and scrambles.
thanks for taking the time to read. we are in england.

www.axolotl.org is your best source of information of keeping axies. From housing them, to feeding them to breeding them.

Also 18" tank is the reccommended minimum space (as said on the website above housing page) for 1 adult axie. I'm assuming you have 2 adults? correct me if wrong.

Water may be getting cloudy by dirt in the gravel that has not been removed fully (which is hard to do really) my small 18" tank which has 3 babies in it gets a lil cloudy after about a week or so of 2 feeds a day. A 50% water change fixes that.

So if in doubt just do a partial water change.

I reccomend greatly in getting testr kits for ammonia, nitrate and nitrite and ph. These are invaluable item in caring for axies and harmful levels of any of the three forementioned toxins may be harmful enough to kill.

Personally i wouldnt use and undergravel filter. For my adults i use an external canister filter which sucks out the water, filters it using 3 methods then pumps it back in (but mines connected to a chiller as well so it goes tank - filter - chiller - tank) my babies tank has a wet and dry filter aka hang on filter.

Blood worms can be very mess in regards to them getting inbetween the gravel. U might think you have it all but but shift the gravel abit and a lot of <font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font><font color="ff0000">&#149;</font> comes out.

I hope this information helps. I'm not a professional so dont take my adivce as being right. I'm just using my own knowledge.

By the way welcome to the forums enjoy your stay and feel free to ask anything you want. I and others will be glad to help.

Thanks for the reply!
Ok we have had them about 2 months and they are about 7 inches long. not sure if they are adults. but they seem to have lots of space?
i dont need a chiller lol, we are in england the land of the never showing sun! are test kits very expensive?

liesa

You're probably right about the filter Axolotls are messy animals, so they do need a little more than a sponge filter- nothing too powerful though, because strong currents in the water can cause a lot of stress. Fluval, Aquaclear, and AquaOne all make smallish filters with adjustable flow that are suitable for axies. There would be others of course, these are just the ones I've used myself.

Your cloudy water is probably partly caused by inadequate filtration, but also your tank is "cycling." The waste your axolotls produce breaks down, causing a buildup of ammonia in the water. Ammonia is very toxic to aquatic life- high levels can even kill. Thankfully, bacteria called nitrifying bacteria can break down ammonia into nitrite (also toxic), then nitrite into nitrAte (harmless in small amounts.) The "cycle" is the period of time your tank needs to establish a healthy population of nitrifying bacteria- enough bacteria to adequately process the amount of waste produced in the system.

By changing the water every week, you're not allowing the tank to cycle- a full cycle usually takes about a month to complete. Cloudy water is often evidence of a bacterial bloom, especially in new tanks. It's not a bad thing, but you've been right to change the water in this case, since the stress of living in a cycling aquarium can weaken the immune system of even the strongest animal and leave the door open to disease.

Do you have a large plastic/rubber bin that you could temporarily house your axolotls in until the tank has finished cycling? You would still need to change the water in the temporary container quite often, but in the end you'll have a more stable, natural system for them to live in. Well worth the effort, I think!

To start/continue your cycle, you will need test kits for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. One for pH is always a good idea too! You will need to add some waste for the bacteria to feed on- a piece of shrimp left to break down in the water will do the trick nicely, or anything else you have on hand- fish flakes, bloodworms, etc... Test your water every few days- write down the results if you need. You'll see the ammonia levels increase first. These will peak and start to drop, and when the ammonia starts falling you will see higher nitrite readings. These levels too will peak and then start to decline, with your nitrAte rising. When you have ZERO ammonia and ZERO nitrite, the cycle is complete and your axolotls can safely be safely returned to the tank.

Since you have no plants to feed on the nitrAte produced by the cycle, you will need to do small weekly water changes to keep the nitrate from rising to dangerous levels. 10% weekly should be enough of a water change, along with removing visible waste with the turkey baster. Re-test for ammonia etc. with each water change. In a healthy tank, ammonia and nitrite will always be zero- the cycle is ongoing. If the sponge/cotton fleece in your filter gets really grungy, rinse it out in TANK water, not tap water. Bacteria live in the filter media, and chlorinated tap water will kill them and you'll be back to square one!

Hope that helps you out a bit, if you need more information you can also search the site (top right of the page, yellow links) for other similar topics. Good luck with Salmon and Scrambles!

I know you dont need a chiller. Im just saying how my set up is.

Test kits here in aus are around $15 bot sure in pound.

7 inch is about adult.

I suppose 18" could be ok as long as they enough room and are not cramped.

Im glad to offer any help i can.

brendan was just being jealous of you needing one hehehehe..thanks for the advice

Leah thank you too, what you said makes sense, we were never told about "cycling" our tank *sighs*
I will take them out and put them in a box we have until it has cycled. should i change their water every day? do they need their rocks in there? gosh i have so many questions!

thankyou
liesa
xxx

Cycling happens when a new aquarium settles, its recommended to leave the setup circulating for a week before adding animals. If you didnt its not the end of the world.
Did you clean the gravel first? If not thats the most likley source of "dirty" water.
If its "cloudy" then its most likley because its new, either that or lots of poo.
Is your filter fed by an air pump?
Try a 25% water change daily. Treating the water first, letting it stand to a) allow chlorine to evaorpate off and b) to equalize temperature. Then with a 2nd bucket and syphon pipe drain 25%, trying to get as much junk out of the gravel as possible. Then slowly replace the water with the clean stuff, after a few days it will be clear.

right Brett! lol lets start
1. yes we cleaned the gravel.
2. it is cloudy but has "floaty" bits.
3. yes i think it is an air pump
so its ok to leave them in the water? they only seem to poo occasionally and its sorta white floaty bits is that right?

we feed them pellets from our hands and ham.

Liesa - I would not feed them "ham", try earth worms instead, along with the pellets you are feeding.

If your filter looks similar to this:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3918&Ntt=corner%20filters&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

Add Activated Carbon to it as well as the "cotton/wool".

Liesa,

Take Leah's advice, take them out and do water changes on the tub every other day.

You need to let your main tank cycle as Leah said, as this will and can harm axies.

You dont need to have rocks in there temp home, just some hidy holes.

I would personly recommened a minum of a 2ft tank for 2 adult axies, as they can grow up to 1ft in length. Though a 18inch tank will be fine for now, you will need another.

If you looking for other things to feed your axies take a read though some of the other threads that are about. There are normally one or two discusstions about food going on somewhere around here.

Good luck with them both and feel free to ask any questions, remember there is a search function should you need it.

Brett, the recommened time to leave a tank to cycle before putting anyting in it is one month. Or as Leah said until the levels of ammonia etc are 0. I dont think there was any reason for you to post about the 25% water chages etc, as leah has explain what Liesa needs to do. Your just confusing the matter... Try to keep things simple for people that have never experianced things like cycling, or a good helpful pet shop! I know your trying to help.

Brett- please read up on cycling. Letting it "settle" for a week isn't sufficient- test kit results will prove this if you have any doubts. A week into a new cycle, the ammonia will only just have started to climb, and MAY have reached it's peak. This is a VERY dangerous time to have any animal in the water. Ammonia burns their gills, and sensitive skin. I've said it before, but will say again- you might as well be peeing in the water with the levels of ammonia a new cycle can produce. Additionally, nitrite inhibits the blood's ability to carry oxygen, which in an animal already stressed by high ammonia can cause a deadly weakening of the immune system. Please, don't ever think that a week is enough to establish a new tank!

Also, most water treatment facilities now use chloramine instead of chlorine. Chloramine will not evaporate, so letting it sit to age will not help. Better to go with commecially bought water treatments/dechlorinators.

hello again all! thanks for all the advice! i have included a few pics.. my salmon looks very fat is this usual?

if anyone lives in the UK that is an established axy keeper and could email me so that I can ask lots of questions please let me know heheheh thanks!

HI, I am an English Newbie too, and had lousy advice from a petshop too, but they seem to be surviving so far. Its just horrid to feel that you know so little isn't it?

Leah - possibly depends on the water type in your area and how effective your filtration is. Ive kept fish for may years and 1 week settlement is fine for them maybe less is OK.
As for axys, mine was fine after 1 week, no problems at all and has been healthy ever since.

Look at it this way. Most, if not all shops will never even bother to cycle and they have a "fairly" good survival rate. These creatures are more rhobust then you give them credit for.

Brett, Please note that most Fish houses have establish filter systems which all the water runs through. Most are setup weeks before fish are introduced to there systems. This means the tank ARE cycled.

I personally would never introduce an animal to an uncycled tank unless I had no other choice. It is not fair on the animal, you may as well leave it at the petshop to be put in the wrong tank.

Liesa,

Im in england and have 2 adult, 1 'teenage', 1 2inch baby, and many axie eggs.

Please feel free to email me, or Mikki who is the axie forums mod. He's a bit under the whether at the moment, so may not reply.

Good luck with your axies.

BTW, they are very nice! You have an albino, and possibly a melonid coloured axies!

Brett, one week is not enough time to cycle a tank, no matter what kind of water you have. It's not something I'm making up- the nitrogen cycle is real and takes more than seven days to complete. Find me one CREDIBLE source stating otherwise and I will bow down to your superior knowledge. Otherwise, please stop praising/recommending this kind of neglect to people who are new and only want to give their animals the best possible care.

Yes, a healthy animal can, and often will survive the initial cycling of a tank. Some species are tougher than others, just like some people have a higher pain tolerance than others. Goldfish, for example, may show no outward signs of stress during a cycle. Stick any puffer in the same water and it will be laying on the bottom, body all back and gasping for air- dead within days. Just because something CAN survive these conditions doesn't give you, the responsible caretaker of a sensitive living being, the right to house it in anything less than ideal conditions. ESPECIALLY since YOU KNOW BETTER.

Most shops will cycle their tanks- it's in their best interests to do so. Healthy livestock sells better. The exception to this may be feeder fish tanks, which are so grossly overstocked that there's no way the biological filter could possibly handle all the waste. Really good fish stores even quarantine their new fish to check for disease before introducing them to healthy tanks. Same idea as before- dead fish don't sell.

Now, one more time, just in case you missed it before: Ammonia burns, and unlike most fish, an axolotls gills have no outer protection (think of the gill "flaps" you see on a goldfish- the actual gills are the red bits inside.) Without that extra protection, they are even more susceptible to burning from high ammonia levels. Burnt skin and gills causes stress. Continual stress puts a lot of strain on an animal's body. Now, once the ammonia levels start to drop, your axolotl will be dealing with nitrite spikes. Nitrite also burns, but the really fun bit is that it inhibits the oxygen carrying capabilities of the axolotl's blood. Your animal is not only stressed and suffering from chemical burns, but now it has to deal with less oxygen. Robust? They have to be, to survive our "care."

Look at it this way: It's cruel. Cycle your tank properly, these beautiful creatures deserve it.

Think about it.

Liesa,

Very nice, healthy looking axolotls! Salmon is definitely *plump* and looking well!

With leucistic and albino axolotls an early warning sign of trouble can be a strong pink/reddish tinge to the skin and angry looking/inflamed veins visible in the tail (hard to see in dark coloured animals.) Your two look fine, and happy!

Sorry it took so long to get back to you!
Right I have ordered a better pump fluval 2 and we are just going through taking out salmon and scrambles into a tub while we go get a testing kit and let the tank cycle!
gosh who knew motherhood would be so hard hehehe

salmon has been very hungry girl and even though fat still eats loads!
what is a melonid coloured axies? please?