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han
9th December 2004, 16:03
Some pics of Bombina maxima juveniles
http://www.myserver.com/images.jpg
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27589.jpg
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27590.jpg
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27591.jpg
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27592.jpg
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27593.jpg
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27594.jpg
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27595.jpg

<font size="-1">(Message reformatted by John because it was too wide)</font>

john
9th December 2004, 16:21
Beautiful toads Han, did you breed them yourself?

pollywog
9th December 2004, 17:07
Hi Han,
Good to see you've had success with them. I remember when you first got your parent animals. Any photos of the adults?

han
9th December 2004, 19:00
Thanks John. I absolutely must agree, they are wonder-full
No, i didn't breed these youngsters myself, but got them from a German breeder to start another breeding-group. They're about 3 months old now, eating like tigers and growing fast.
Andrew, i wasn't very lucky with the (wildcaught)
adults, lost 3 out of 5, all females. Hopefully females are the majority in the captive bred group i'm raising now.

Han.

(Sorry John, i caused you some trouble by mis-posting these pics).

(Message edited by Han on December 09, 2004)

anthony
9th December 2004, 19:12
Nice toads.

travis
10th December 2004, 01:07
Very nice Bombina. I remember you from the Xfrogs yahoo group. I would love to try keeping these guys some day.
Travis

pollywog
10th December 2004, 11:14
Han,
Sorry to hear you didn't have any luck with your adults. Can you see much difference between the 2 original adults you have and these juveniles as to if the parents of the juveniles came from the same location?

han
10th December 2004, 13:27
Andrew

The 2 original adult males are wild-caught specimens with dorsal shades of green and a ventral deep orange. The juveniles aren't old enough yet to show their definitive dorsal colouration. Ventral colouration by using a colour-enhancer for birds on their food.
The juveniles are F2 so i have no idea where their Chinese ancestors once came from, but the natural habitat of Bombina maxima is almost entirely located in the Yunnan-region.

Han.

alan
10th December 2004, 14:50
Han,

I'm interested in your comment about development of dorsal colouration with age in Bombina. Could you say some more about this?

Thanks,

pollywog
10th December 2004, 15:24
Alan,
In raising my Bombina variegata kolombatavici the colour changes with age.
At metamorphosis froglets are a drab brown, after a month or so they turn green, then as they age this green turns darker until it becomes a bluish-grey at about 2 years.
The ventral coloration also changes with age, at metamorphosis the ventral surface is a light yellow almost white, over a month or 2 this turns to a pastel yellow and hints of light blue appear, then as they age the yellow gets deeper and the blue disappears.

With B.maxima I believe the froglets start a light reddish brown, this will change overtime to greenish gray and may even develop a golden tint. Also the ventral surface of most CB maxima I have seen are a light yellow but as Han pointed out the juveniles in the photographs have been colour fed.

(Message edited by pollywog on December 10, 2004)

alan
10th December 2004, 16:00
I'm experimenting with colour feeding B.orientalis at the moment. This has a dramatic effect on ventral colouration, but in agreement with the literature, does not affect dorsal pigmentation. So, the question is, how do you make them do green?

pollywog
10th December 2004, 16:14
Alan,
Can you expand on: "how do you make them do green?"
I have raised orientalis and they were green all the way:
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27612.jpg
Are your orientalis brown? If so they could be the Golden form from Russia (not yet given specific species / subspecies status):
http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27613.jpg

alan
10th December 2004, 17:51
Interesting. All the reports of CB orientalis I have seen have remarked on the lack of green dorsal pigmentation. Mine (offspring from Caleb Leeke) look like this:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/messages/24791/27631.jpg

ajfr0ggy
11th December 2004, 08:09
Mine seemed to develop the green when they were about 1cm, starting with the patches on the back (like yours), then getting greener all over.

What sort of lighting do you have? I didnt use UV, although it may be a contributing factor.

What colour were the adults?

AJFr0ggy

pollywog
11th December 2004, 11:09
Thats interesting, as I said my orientalis were green from the moment they absorbed their tails. As tadpoles they had a combo of a tropical aquarium flourecent tube and a ZooMed 5% tube. Then once their front legs popped through I transfered them into an aquaterrarium with just a ZooMed 5% tube but in a sunnier part of the house.
I have heard reports from people keeping B.orientalis in outdoor enclosures that the sunlight does affect the development of the dorsal coloration and that adults with a high proportion of brown if kept outdoors will turn plane green.

edward
11th December 2004, 16:09
I hatched and raised a couple of orientalis at work and the green developed very early and the ventral color was yellow fairly early also as we didn't supplement for color.

Ed

han
11th December 2004, 16:31
In general Bombina needs a lot of light to flourish and lighting definitely affects the development of the dorsal colouration of the toadlets, more specific the light-intensity: the more lumen, the better.
When raising Bombina orientalis toadlets i provide a light-intensity of at least 8.000 lumen
above their tank (tank-height only 5 inches).
Within 3 months over 80% develop a bright green dorsum. For some reason or another some toads keep a basic bronze colouration with blotches of green.
Han.