Found frog want another frog to go with it ... what to get?

I found a gray tree frog in my house and I want to get another frog to go with it. I heard it's really hard to find and buy gray tree frogs so i want to find something else that will go with it. I also want a different kind because I just like different types of frogs. It is the first one I have every had, so it would be cool if you could help me out on enclosure ideas also. It is in a 10 gallon tank, do you have any ideas of how to make it look really cool, make the frog happy, and keep it cheap?

I have been looking around on this site and a lot of people seem to have white tree frogs. Do they get really big or do you think they will be fine in a 10 gallon tank with a gray tree frog? Gray tree frogs stay under 2 inches I think. If you have any other suggestions they are appreciated!!

Hummm...that is a tough call because most tree frogs need at minimum about a 20 gallon tank...if you have too small a tank then it will stress the frogs out. But if you to add one more frog that isn't a grey, I would get a green tree frog. Green tree frogs are about the same size as the grey's, live in generally the same regions of the US, and are fairly inexpensive.

Chris

Chris,

There are a huge number of tree frogs that can range in sizes from very small to very large frogs. To say that most tree frogs need at least a minimum of about a 20 gallon tank is insufficient as many small tree frogs do very well in properly set-up smaller enclosures.

Ed

Ed,

True but Michelle wants to put it with a grey tree frog (Hyla chrysoscelis or Hyla versicolor). These species can get up to 2 1/2 making it a medium sized tree frog.

Yes there are small tree frogs such as the species from Hawaii Eleutherodactylus (and many more), but generally speaking grey tree frogs and comparable frogs need more than a 10 gallon tank. If you were to put one of these smaller species with a grey I would bet the grey would eat it (not a fact but grey's are carnivorous and probably would eat a frog that is the size of a dime).

Chris

Chris,

On what do you base your information that tree frogs the size of a green or grey require more than a ten gallon tank....

Ed

Ed,

I am not here to disagree with you. I base my information from tons of experience with both grey's and green's.

I am not saying the frogs will die if they are in a 10 gallon, but you and I both know that two frogs would do much better (healthier/heartier) in a 15 gallon HIGH tank. I would say her 10 gallon tank is sufficient for one frog, but again these frogs are arboreal and thrive in taller tanks.

Here are some sites to look over that clearly state more than 10 gallon tank for more than one frog:
http://www.froggie.info/green/tank.htm
http://www.centralpets.com/animals/reptiles/frogs/frg2502.html

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Chris,

I have had a lot of experience for a large number of years with a large number of frog species including both of those cited...

Neither of those sites provides references indicating why those minimal size enclosures are recommended. I have not disagreed with you as of yet but I am going to ask you again, on what do base the statement snip "do much better (healthier/heartier) in a 15 gallon HIGH tank"endsnip

Ed

Not to get in the way too much here... but from what I understand, having the taller tank with any treefrog species gives a better option on temperature gradient as its been noted that treefrogs do thermoregulate.

Please, correct me if I am wrong.

Hi Kyle,

View it as a thought problem.

So I have to ask, why is a vertical gradient better than a lateral gradient?


Ed

I see -

Well, its tough to say for sure without actually testing temperatures between the two, but I would think the vertical gradient would give a more natural drop in temperature as you get further from a heat source. Where as working across the tank, you may get the same variation, in temperatures but it may be more drastic.

Without actually testing that theory though, I can assume that having a horizontally oriented 10 gallon tank with an incandescent spot sitting on one half will heat up the whole tank too hot anyway. But that all depends on how far above the tank the light is placed, and how many lumens the bulb would be pushing.

There is really no argument one way or the other I suppose, it's all about appropriately placing your light in correlation to the correct tank size and orientation of said tank.

That being said - treefrogs are noted climbers

Reasonable response, so the next thought I have for you to ponder,

Why is the assumption frequently made that because tree frogs are noted climbers vertical enclosure orientation is more important than horizontal?

Ed

I like the way you think Ed.
A little outside the box
Or maybe it is sideways

Anyway, enough of the puns, you're absolutely right, it shouldn't matter either way. Really, with treefrogs, as long as the proper amount of vertical and horizontal space is given, the cubic measurements of the tank will be the same. This in turn gives the same amount of space for roaming whether it be side to side or up and down, there just may not necessarily be as much of one or the other. So really, a box (perfect cube) is the end all be all to the question... given that it is of proper space requirements for the species.

To answer your question though, I would say the general populous assumes that climbing is upward and a treefrog feels more 'secure' sitting in a higher spot. Whether a treefrog is really all that worried about its security is beyond me. I say just give them as much space as you can manage.

Hi Kyle,

My thinking outside of the box (really tree frog heresy) has earned me plenty of flaming on other sites and plenty of bad mouthing....

Now this brings back to the "proper size" issue. If you look at standard aquaria, as the volume goes up (cubes) the amount of surface space increases much more slowly (squares) so in in the long run a very large enclosure may actually have less "usable" space per animal than a large one (as the last time I checked, tree frogs can't hover in mid air on thier own)... Now the argument is often made that the cage furnishings increase the available space for the animals again this is true to some extent but you have to keep in mind that the same furnishings also have thier own volume which detracts from the available space as their surface may not be 100% acceptable to the animal as acceptable habitat.

A further issue (which plays some part in the points above) is the assignment of a minimal volume in gallons to determine a suitable enclosure to a frog without taking into consideration any other aspects of its life history other than it is arboreal. As noted above, as the volume of the enclosure increases the amount of surface area decreases so using a x gallons per frog stocking density is inaccurate at best. A much better method would be to evaluate the available niches for the frogs and see if there are sufficient space in that fashion. This would cause the person to have to take into account, territorial requirements etc.


Some further thoughts,

Ed