Bottom-feeder fish to keep w. grown ACFs

I know that putting catfish and other spiny, aggressive fish in with ACFs isn't good, but what about algae eaters? I'm afraid that despite frequent 50% water changes and frequent addition of water clearing additives, my ACF tank needs more help. It is frequently cloudy, and even with two fluval underwater filters going, there is still scum on the glass, plants, and substrate, and fuzzy looking deposits in areas of less activity. It's gross, and I want it gone. I'm thinking of adding some bottom feeder fish and an algae eater. Oddly enough, my other tank, the one that has 4 frogs, is a lot cleaner.. but they are smaller, are more inclined to hang around the surface and land areas, and don't stir up the bottom gunge.
BTW, my ACFs are big.. almost adult sizes.
What kinds of bottom feeder fish do you advise?

S.

I dont think that fish would be the answer and perhaps even exasperate the problem. at very least; they wont appreciate the conditions...

Why not try feeding your frogs a different diet that has less waste, what is your feeding and cleaning regime now? Do you do water changes?

Or, some people prefer to keep the adults in a bare bottom tank as this is much easier to clean... I prefer sand myself... the waste blows across the top until the filter catches it.



(Message edited by colin on July 27, 2004)

Maybe try snails instead of fish. I have no experience with aquatic frogs, so feel free to tell me if thats a bad idea. But I think they would do the same job, but without the more hazardous parts (like spines).

The substrate in the tank is washed/boiled river rocks, worn smooth and round. Most are about 1" diameter. They are only at most 1-2 rocks deep.

I thought about sand, but worried that it would just end up clogging the filters as the frogs churned it up. Both of my filters are up off the bottom of the tank, stuck to a side wall, about halfway up the tank. I'm thinking of putting one at the bottom and one at the top, but I don't want to go stressing the frogs out any more than is required after such a harrowing month as they have had.

I suspect the problem is twofold.. this is a pretty new tank (about 1 month old) and the frogs have only been in residence about a week.. and my concern that my new boys weren't eating and my trying different things to try to tempt them. I made the mistake of putting in shrimp pellets that disolved into goo in a matter of minutes (never buying that brand again! Ick!) that were missed by the frogs, and neglecting to siphon them out as soon as I noticed (for that, I can only blame a nasty migraine). The resultant mess is going to take some effort to overcome.
I've done two water changes this week.. one 30% and one 50+%, changed both filters, added in a tank shock chem and beneficial bacteria culture, and a large snail, so I hope that helps. I have also siphoned as much of the waste as was possible out of the tank. I still see fine particulate floating around, but at least I can see the back of the tank again. Sigh. I never had this problem with my other tank.. those frogs are neater.

S.

Oh, well, why dont you wait until the tank completely cycles before you worry about the algae problem? It may be caused to an increase in nitrites/ammonia in the water because of the new frogs. After the tank has cycled, I imagine the algae would be not so profuse.

Sorry, i didnt realise your tank was so new... as Kaysie says you need your tank to cycle, you have no bacteria in your filter to catch up with the frogs waste... watch the ammonia doesnt get too high as it will burn and possibly kill the frogs... cut back on feeding
cheers

I thought it had.. I had set the tank up three weeks before the arrival of the frogs/fish and had shocked it and had been adding the bacteria cultures. It had appeared totally stable until the episode with those damnable cheap shrimp pellets. I had it nice and clean and clear and happy before that.

S.

You have to have animals in the tank before it cycles. read: http://www.caudata.org/cc/articles/waterquality.shtml

The bacteria cultures that you get in stores are fairly useless. Just a waste of money in my opinion.

Good luck!

Alage eaters have been known to attack amphibians. I have 2 comments on your tank:
(a) the additives used to clear the water actually interfere with the biological cycle, and
(b) you need to cycle a tank with live animals, so I suggest some hardy fish like white-cloud mountain minnows, snails and lots of aquatic plants.

Before the arrival of the ACFs, I did keep a leopard froglet and several guppies in that tank. She has since been moved to the tank up in my bedroom so I can watch her antics as I'm trying to fall asleep. She was in that tank for about 3 weeks. This is part of the reason I had figured the tank was stable, as everything was perfect when she was there. But she eats crickets, not pelleted foods, and she is a very mannerly eater.. she is also a lot smaller, at only 1 inch or so of body length (not long after morphing), and the ACFs are well over 3 inches of body length.

I have been testing ammonia levels, nitrite levels, PH levels, etc every few days, and have been using products that remove ammonia and nitrites when required (Amquel+ and Ammolock), though I have so far not seen the ammonia/nitrite levels get any higher than moderate. I will do another 50% change tomorrow night, and likely two more next week. The tank needs to be pretty good by next Thurs, as I'm going into the hospital for major surgery and will likely be kept in between 4-6 days. I do have a friend coming in to look after my critters, and if pressed, I could get him to do a 50% change in that span, but I don't want to put him out too much. He has aquaria at home and knows what to do.

I'm afriad live plants might not work with my two Clawed Frogs.. these ACFs are diggers, and they routinely 'uproot' the three plastic plants I have in there now. I don't know how well a plant would survive having it's root system dug up every few days. Do you know of any very hardy aquatic plants that might be able to survive this froggy fetish for uprooting plants? My two frogs seem to be mobile quirks.

I thought about borrowing a used filter from a friend's long-standing and well cycled tank.. would that be an idea that would introduce the beneficial bacteria into my tank, or would it just increase the risk of disease? I can't use the filter from my other big tank, as I keep firebellied toads there, and they produce toxins that will kill fish and other frogs from their skin, and can't take it from the tank in my bedroom, as it is new too.

Thanks for all the help, everyone. I'm starting to narrow down what is going on here, and helps a lot.

Sara