Baby FIRE SALAMANDERS....worries!

Hi Gang!

Great news (I hope!)....our very gravid female FIRE SALAMANDER (Terrestris species) has started to give birth!

Upto now we have had 27 (Laid over 2 nights) and are expecting more. She seems to prefer to expell them well into the evening when all is dark and calm...bless her!

So....we have netted out the young and transferred them to a seperate 'tank' for rearing.

However....here is our diemma.

We have NEVER bred them before and certainly have never reared the young.

We would (We by the way is myself and my young son Tom) very much appreciate any advice from members who have had experience in these matters. Any caresheets, photos etc would be greatly received.

The fantastic 'FIRE' guru "Mike East" was very helpfull recently with advice (And I would strongly reccomend his knowledge) but rather than keep pestering Mike, I would really appreciate any help.

So you know, the young are currently in a shallow tank (24" x 12" x 6") with a water level of approx 4"...and a secure lid! It was filled with our pond water (From our own pond....safe but full of Daphnia etc) and a small broken flower pot was turned upside down to provide somewhere for them to seek sanctuary from the prying eyes!

Daphnia, dragon fly larvae (Small!) and occasional bloodworms are being fed.

I have also added 2 bunches of canadian pondweed to provide further shelter and also 'hopefully' airate the water through its oxygenating qualities. My only concern with that is that we wrapped the bases in little bags full of soil to allow the weed to grow and it gradually leaks the sediment soiling the water.

Is the set-up OK?

Do you guys think I need a filter?

Any tips on feeding?

And so on and so on.......

Thank you all in advance.

Regards,

Mike Gent.

PS Any tips from members who have reared similar species may also be helpfull...thanks.

hi mike..some will tell you other more complicated ways but i am rearing gallaica and terrestris larvae and i now have some morphs ,firstly don't expect to rear 100% of the larvae you will have casualties.The method i use is ,as you have, use pond water and keep them in stackers (if you have a wilko's nearby they sell good sized 16L ones for around £2.25) around 10 per stacker with weed (elodea) in there. Keep them well fed ,or you may find odd ones with legs missing, i find they immediately take blood worm as long as its moving ,change 50% of the water every three days or so but try to make sure its around the same temp.Using this method i've never had any probs and you don't kill them with kindness as a lot of people do..heres some photo's

Good luck with them Mike!

Congratulations, Mike! Sounds like you are on the right track. I don't think you need a filter, but a small airstone (with very slow, gentle production of bubbles) wouldn't hurt, especially since you have a lid on the container.

I've heard that dragonfly larvae are wickedly predatory, so I'm a bit concerned about that.

How large are the larvae at this point? I would suggest introducing them to chopped earthworm as soon as they are large enough. This is a super growth food.

I assume you've found the "raising from eggs" and "microfoods" articles on Caudata Culture?

Well in fairness Salamandra larvae are on the easy side for rearing simply because they start off so much bigger than other species. They eat very well too, but as with all species they often take several separate feedings of a food item before they start to accept it. They'll grow fastest on Daphnia but they'll take other foods too (and non-living if you're persistent at first). People generally experience losses around the time they metamorphose, so just make sure their water isn't too deep when they're about 4 cm and they can easily haul out when it's time (water + fire salamanders = dead fire salamanders).

Hi Ian,

Thanks for getting back to me so soon...sorry I am late replying!

We are now upto 34 (Born over 3 days/nights) and we are giving her another couple of nights in the 'birthing pool' to see if she has any more!

She looks well...and is eating again...she looks tired but bright..."positively glowing like a new mother should be" said my wife!

All 34 are doing well and feeding constantly.

A few questions:-

Do you think 34 is too many in a 18" x 12" tank with water depth of 4" ?

Do you think I should partially change the water every 3 days as you say?

We are lucky in that we have a large well stocked pond that is literally teaming with Daphnia so keeping a constant supply is no problem!

Good job really as many local shops cannot supply good quality bloodworms etc at the moment!

Do you think I should get them onto bloodworms ASAP?

Finally, I travel the country with my job a lot so it would be great to meet up at some point. Ironically I was in your area a couple of days last week!

If you would like to meet up and exchange ideas etc feel free to contact me

Again, many thank s for all your help and I will try and get some picks ASAP too.

Cheers,

Mike.

Thanks John

Hi John,

Many thanks for your reply, all the help from you all is very much appreciated.

We are upto 34 now and the young and the mother are all doing very well.

I have replied in detail to Ian regarding many aspects of the rearing, feel free to comment further if you feel it necessary.

Regards and thank you.

Mike.

John said:

Well in fairness Salamandra larvae are on the easy side for rearing simply because they start off so much bigger than other species. They eat very well too, but as with all species they often take several separate feedings of a food item before they start to accept it. They'll grow fastest on Daphnia but they'll take other foods too (and non-living if you're persistent at first). People generally experience losses around the time they metamorphose, so just make sure their water isn't too deep when they're about 4 cm and they can easily haul out when it's time (water + fire salamanders = dead fire salamanders).

Click to expand...

Hi Louise!

As with all the other members, I am humbled by the reaction and free help that we have received so far.

As new members we are amazed by the concern shown by you all.

I will try and keep you all posted...lest just hope we dont lose any! (I keep looking in my large garden pond and seeing how easy all of our smooth newst are getting on, plenty of lovin, lots of egg laying and play and the larvae are having a brilliant time.....makes you wonder how much easier it would be to have the FIRES living natuarally!)

Thanks again,

Mike.

louise said:

Good luck with them Mike!

Click to expand...

Thank you!

Thanks for the comments and concern re our 'flock'!

We are now upto 34...maybe more ?!

Please dont worery about the dragonm fly larvae....I am well aware of their viscious predatory behaviour and have only popped a couple of the tiny versions in that have yet to transform into the nasty pond lurkers! (If and when they appear to doing so, they will be removed dont worry!)

The larvae are approx 1" (25mm) so anything bigger than dahnia and bloodworms would 'blow their minds' I'm sure! Although as soon as they are I will be supplying suitable foods...I love to watch them eat!

I have found the caresheet thank you, and as with the rest of the site and its members it is very informative and helpfull.

Kind regards,

Mike.

Jennewt said:

Congratulations, Mike! Sounds like you are on the right track. I don't think you need a filter, but a small airstone (with very slow, gentle production of bubbles) wouldn't hurt, especially since you have a lid on the container.

I've heard that dragonfly larvae are wickedly predatory, so I'm a bit concerned about that.

How large are the larvae at this point? I would suggest introducing them to chopped earthworm as soon as they are large enough. This is a super growth food.

I assume you've found the "raising from eggs" and "microfoods" articles on Caudata Culture?

Click to expand...

Sleep deprivation is a terrible thing

[
Hi Louise,

Just re-read my reply and noticed so many spelling mistakes!

It has been along but pleasant weekend and it is late.....my tedious excuses!!!

Apologies!

Mike.


quote=Mike Gent;116286]As with all the other members, I am humbled by the reaction and free help that we have received so far.

As new members we are amazed by the concern shown by you all.

I will try and keep you all posted...lest just hope we dont lose any! (I keep looking in my large garden pond and seeing how easy all of our smooth newst are getting on, plenty of lovin, lots of egg laying and play and the larvae are having a brilliant time.....makes you wonder how much easier it would be to have the FIRES living natuarally!)

Thanks again,

Mike.[/quote]

Mike Gent said:

A few questions:-

Do you think 34 is too many in a 18" x 12" tank with water depth of 4" ?

Click to expand...

Definitely too dense. You might get away with two tanks like that and the bunch split between them. The problem is that the higher the density the more likely they'll nip each other and do damage. Personally I'd try to keep it to less than 10 in that size a tank, particularly as they near metamorphosis.

Mike Gent said:

Do you think I should partially change the water every 3 days as you say?

Click to expand...

Not a bad idea.

Mike Gent said:

Do you think I should get them onto bloodworms ASAP?

Click to expand...

Live Daphnia are better than almost any other food you can name, and they rival live freshly hatched brine shrimp. If you can keep up the supply, go crazy with the Daphnia, as much as they can eat.

Mike Gent said:

Finally, I travel the country with my job a lot so it would be great to meet up at some point. Ironically I was in your area a couple of days last week!

If you would like to meet up and exchange ideas etc feel free to contact me on 0777 0642 465.

Click to expand...

Mike I wouldn't share my phone number on a public web site unless I really understood that _anyone_ can see it. That's why we have a private messaging system.

The other thing is that you can edit your own messages for a while after you post them, so if you see mistakes you can change them - no need to post a new one.

hi Mike..if you can find a wilko's i would go for the stackers ,you can buy three for less than a tenner ,they are easy to do water changes in ,light and not easily broken, have lids and of coarse take up less room as you can pile them up. I find mine will take chopped earth worm but at first you will need to drop it virtually on their snout end until they get the taste for it but daphnia and blood worm are fine too. I do a water change of around 50% every three or four days but the more crowded you have them the more changes will be needed ,more changes means more stress on the larvae. If you are round our way again pop in for a cuppa i'll pm you with my e- mail address....ian

Hi John,

Thanks for the pointers, all well received.

All OK at the moment.

Dont worry re the mobile...I understand your comments but it is a work number.

Regards,

Mike