PDA

View Full Version : Axie not eating


avalon_princess
10th October 2007, 23:47
So I've been worrying bout Morpheus, and since Pendragon appeared healthy and I'd seen him eating before, I assumed he was still eating. I'd drop food into his food bowl and 10 minutes later he'd be over there and the food was gone. When I cleaned his tank out today I found all the bloodworms I'd been feeding, they'd somehow gotten into a cave and were all clumped together. Pendragon looks really thin and I've tried him with all the foods I can think of and although he looks interested, he just won't eat it.

Anyone got any suggestions?

digger
11th October 2007, 03:54
how big is he?
how often are you feeding and how much?
what are you feeding, live or frozen.?
have you checked water parameters and temp?
if he is 20cm+ he is adult and therefore 2 weekly feeds should suffice.
live food might be more interesting like a nice earth worm.
water temp plays a big part in how they are as the warmer the weather the quicker food deteriates, also the more they think they want as they are more active.
hope this might have helped some if not im sure others will offer their ideas.

avalon_princess
11th October 2007, 04:17
Barely 15 cm long, I've tried him with pellets, bloodworms (live, frozen and freeze dried) Freeze dried whole shrimp, brine shrimp and earthworms. Temp has been sitting steady at 22 degrees for the past week, water parameters are fine (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite 10 nitrate)

Hmmm just noticed another clump of bloodworm in the tank, this time pretty deteriorated, I could've sworn I got it all out yesterday, and I only offered a small pinch today, could he be regurgitating food?

digger
11th October 2007, 04:25
he is a juvenille then, i would leave him for a couple of days and then try some thing different an earth worm would most likely stimulate him more, feeding every other day would be fine at his size as well.

avalon_princess
11th October 2007, 04:29
He hasn't eaten in over a week....

Hmm I just got him to take an earthworm, seems to be having trouble swallowing it though, he gets it all in his mouth then he'll do the jerky thing to swallow it and it's tail will stick back out. Hmm he just spat the tail out, looks like he ate most of the worm, now I just hope it stays that way, as the poor guy is starting to look rather thin.

ianclick
11th October 2007, 04:32
Hi Emma a week is ok for an axie to go without food. I would try some diet changes and also check your water parameters and temp.

Good Luck

digger
11th October 2007, 04:32
i would try to lower tank temp as well if i were you as any uneaten food deteriates very quickly in warm water.
just remove what he doesnt eat straight away and keep an eye for waste.
hope all goes well.
im sure when the rest of the world wakes up others will offer more advice lol.

gr33neyes
11th October 2007, 06:55
try cutting up the worm or finding a smaller one, i feed mine tiny ones at the moment as she is still a baby

avalon_princess
14th October 2007, 22:36
I still can't get him to eat enough, finding worms is almost impossible, and every time I buy some their 5mm long scrawny things that are useless to feed.

He is soooo thin, his body is like a third of the width of his head, and I'm starting to get really worried, I'm trying bloodworm again today and I'm praying he'll take some.

Morpheus that axie I bought ill is fine, and theres nothing wrong with the food as Morpheus chows down on it, he loves it, it's just Pendragon who won't eat.

avalon_princess
14th October 2007, 22:59
Uuuuh how bad are crickets for axies? As since I didn't ahve anything else Mum suggested offering some live crickets, we feed them to the lizards, and boy did Pendragon get excited, their a touch to big for him, so it took a few goes to get it down, but he's got a nice meaty cricket in him now.

If it's okay to keep feeding crickets, I'll pick up a box of more suitably sized crickets when we're at the shops tomorrow, since he seemed to enjoy his cricket.

catherinepet1
15th October 2007, 02:50
:o
Emma
Just a quick trick
get old tye(car) or anything round with high sides
Place in cool part of garden
place all scraps mum has in kitchen but not meat
cover with wet newspaper
in 1 to 2 days uncover and you will have a heaps of worms
remember dont place where you have had pest control or fertilizer.
my son did this and in two days had over 30 worms
being in australia keep worm patch in shade damp at all times.
Just a note for anyone that wants live food

Regards catherine selfridge/catherinepet1:o

avalon_princess
15th October 2007, 07:15
We've got 3 compost heaps (I live on a farm) which are generally teaming with worms, but with the hot weather they've gone deeper then I can get to, theres no cool places in the garden at the mo, LOL dontcha just love summer?

avalon_princess
16th October 2007, 09:54
Hmmm, he ate another cricket today.

Just one question, since he ate the first cricket he's been spending time floating around the top, he can still swim down when he wants to, he seems to prefer floating though, is this bad? Mum thinks it's because the crickets are quite large and floating means he can use his lungs to get more air....

avalon_princess
16th October 2007, 10:12
Uuuh, okay am really starting to freak now, Pendragons SKIN is coming off-
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/cutencoolcages/edit1resize-1.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/cutencoolcages/edit2resize-2.jpg

It doesn't look anything like parasites, I swear it's his skin, his water parameters are fine (o ammonia, 0 nitrite, 10 nitrate) Ph is 7. Granted we've had a few warm days but the temp has never gone past 24, generally its around 20-22. The only time he's had ammonia since I got him, was the first day when I accidentally tipped too many pellets in his tank, ammonia only spiked to 0.05 and as soon as I realized it was cleaned up, but that was at least two weeks ago.

This only started tonight, please HELLLPPP!!!!

digger
16th October 2007, 12:06
he might just be shedding, my leucistic went on a growth spurt and i ended up with with what looked like a large sausage skin in the tank.
just keep an eye on him to make sure he isnt stressing,
as for the floating he might just need to poo, as long as he is able to get down if he wishes he should be fine,

avalon_princess
17th October 2007, 21:19
Argh his gills and dorsal fin have started shrinking now, what am I doing wrong? I've even ordered a whole new set of test kits in case mine aren't testing the water correctly, they should arrive on Monday. We have better water then most people, as living so far out we don't have access to city water, just rainwater, which is what's used for everything. His tank has some extra large pebbles that are bigger then his head and blue and purple sand, it did have hideouts which have been removed so I can monitor food, instead the tanks been covered with black cloth to make it dark.

I wouldn't say the tank has much oxygen in it as I ended up turning his filter off because he was stressed by the current, I need to find something new to use.

digger
18th October 2007, 03:50
he neeeds a filter in with him as the water will be fouling even though you are removing waste when you see it,try to put something infront of the filter i.e plants , get a spray bar, or just direct the flow to the sides this should help cut i down.
the shrinking of gill ect is a sign of poor water conditions.
i would either remove him and put him in a container with dechlorinated water or start doing water changes daily of 20/30%.
but you must have a filter in there, the only other option is total water changes everyday.

avalon_princess
18th October 2007, 06:35
I'm doing daily 75% water changes and keeping an eye on water parameters, to ensure the water quality remains without a filter. The filter had a spray bar but he was still getting blown around and his gills were all pointing forward, it was the smallest filter i could find, am about to try an air driven filter instead.

As soon as I find as filter that he's happy with I'll use it, until then I don't really have any other option.

this was in the tank just now, you can see both crickets in it, did he regurgitate it? or is this poop? gross whatever it is
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/cutencoolcages/Pendragon011resize.jpg

How badly would Pendragon react to me redoing his tank? I want to remove all the sand and lower the water level so i can do full clean outs every day...

kclinton
18th October 2007, 14:36
If the crickets are big their shell in to had for them to digest. Mine had the same problem when I trayed to feed crickets. In stead of redoing his tank ( I think that would just cause him more stress) Try floating/hanging fake plants from the spry bar tie them on that will break the water flow evev more.

avalon_princess
18th October 2007, 21:10
Well I bought a teeny filter, and modded a large spray bar to fit and that seems to be working better.

There were bloodworms as well in that chunk of stuff, should I keep feeding bloodworms? I've also bought some small squishy crickets to try him with, though there so small he doesn't seem to be showing much interest, he wasn't interested in the nice juicy earthworm I dug up either...

kclinton
18th October 2007, 21:53
Mine eat mostly blood worms ( they like them the best) If he did throw them up might want to wait a day or so to try and feed again.

digger
19th October 2007, 04:12
it looks like a poo pellet to me,
at his size it wont hurt for him to go a day without food this might re-stimulate his appetite.

avalon_princess
19th October 2007, 09:56
Well he's now got fungus, fun fun fun, some patches on his body and at the tips of some of his gills...

avalon_princess
19th October 2007, 10:19
Just gave him a salt bath and all the fungus came off, it took some gill filaments with it, but was surprised at how easily it feel off.

The poor guys extraordinarily skinny now, his head is about an inch wide and his body is maybe half an inch, or less, you can see all the bones in his legs, right down to the metacarpals. I'm still offering food every day but he won't even look at it, or have a half hearted snap at it, he just ignores it...

I read that fungal infection can cause loss of appetite and stress, could that be what this is?

avalon_princess
20th October 2007, 03:34
Starting to think Euthanasia would be best for Pendragon. He's sooo thin, and he's completely stopped moving now as well, the only times he's moved is when I've moved him (moving him to salt bath). The fungus came back overnight as expected, but now it's on all his gills and theres patches all over his body, he's obviously stressed, his dorsal fin is shrinking fast as well.

kclinton
20th October 2007, 04:23
Have you put him in the fridge?

avalon_princess
20th October 2007, 04:43
No where to fridge him, Mum's a textile artists and all the fridges we have have dyes in them, and considering what they can do to people, I don't want to stick an axie in an enclosed space with them. I thought I might try adding icecubes to his tank though...

ianclick
20th October 2007, 06:08
Hi Emma,

75% is too much to change. By removing that much water you are not allowing the tank a chance to cycle properly. Cycling is your tank developing its own collection of healthy bacteria that help to deal with waste and ultimately help control the quality of your water.

Axolotls have a slime coat which acts as a natural protective barrier. It looks as if this is what is coming off your axie rather than skin.

I suggest you put your axie in the fridge for a week or so while you have a look at your tank setup.

I am the advocate for no substrate and as such I say take out the sand get some nice slate slabs and a turkey baster. There are some good photos in the gallery on this site for ideas.

I have slate slabs and bare tank floor and it is really easy to keep clean I have a 160 Litre tank and the appropriate sized filter for a tank with three (soon to be 4) axies. This tank has been cycled for about three months and I still do weekly 20% water changes and have no water problems. I do daily spot cleans with the turkey baster and a thorough weekly clean when I do the water changes. I never clean the plants and only clean the front of the tank so I am sure to always have a healthy bacteria colony.

Hope this helps

Good Luck

avalon_princess
20th October 2007, 07:12
The tank was cycled before he went in, so the water changes shouldn't have made a difference to the bacteria. Yah am changing over to bare bottom, I didn't realize how much axies pooped, was totally disgusting cleaning the sand off in my other axie tank. I can't see there being a problem with the set up, as Pendragon has the exact same set up as Morpheus, only differences are that Pendragon's sand is blue, Morpheus' is Purple, Pendragon has a glass tank, and Morpheus a plastic tank.

Bacteria congregates in the filter, barely 0.1% percent can be found on plants, glass or substrate, and total water changes will not make a difference to the bacteria colony as long as you keep the media under water at all times. Although I'm a novice with axies, I've kept fish for a long time, and understand basic water chemistry and whats required. The large water changes, I've used before with other amphibians and with fish and have always had fantastic results. My other axie Morpheus gets 75-90% water changes twice a week without a problem.

Okay just cleared the fridge out of dyes, Mum's pissed, since were virtually dumping $300 worth of quality dyes, we've stuffed as much as we can in the other fridge, but a lot is still going to have to be used in the next week or thrown out. The fridge doesn't say what temperature it is, and I couldn't find a thermometer anywhere that went that low, so I've just turned the temperature control up as far as it will go, and added in a couple of bottles of water for water changes,

How often should I be doing water changes? every day? every second day? and should I keep offering him food? or just leave him?

bellabelloo
20th October 2007, 09:44
I'm sorry to hear he's not doing to well ( love the name) , When he's in the fridge you'll need to do daily water changes . Keep a bottle of dechlorinated water water ready in the fridge for the next water change. I currently have a small axolotl languishing in the fridge ( lost all its tail up to its back legs when he escaped to find dad!he is now known a s the 1/2 axolitlle) , he is in a lidded clear plastic container with a cloth wrapped around to diffuse the light when the kids break into the fridge for goodies. I change the water daily and leave in his case some live food for company. He's left alone till the next water change ... the food is gone and he has then lefty me a small gift in return.
I had been about to suggest using perhaps a cool box as an alternative, but you'll need to keep the ice packs regularly changed ( not in his container but out side) .. :]

ianclick
20th October 2007, 20:54
Hi Emma,

I am interested about where you have gotten your statistics from. Everything I have read and researched would suggest that 75%-90% water changes would be excessive and not recommended. Also 0.1% bacteria on plants substrates and glass sounds a bit random. Surely there would be too many variable factors such as tank size, substrate, numbers of plants and water volume, to be able to accurately calculate the percentage of bacteria growth and suggest a mean.

I don't mean to sound rude or demeaning but fungus is a fairly good indicator that all is not well with the health of your tank. Unless it has been introduced. If you have not already have a look at www.axolotl.org its got heaps of good information.

I don't think you should euthanase your axie. There are many breeders and keepers in your area that would be only too happy to take it off your hands

Buts its only advice its offered freely and yours to take or not.

Good Luck

avalon_princess
21st October 2007, 03:51
The axie is new, and he's still in his quarantine period, so he could easily have been carrying something... I've only had him for a few weeks.

The large water changes simulate natural environment, most creatures do not live in a pool, thats highly stocked. In the wild the habitats would be sparsely stocked with life and most have fresh water running through all the time, which means their in constantly fresh water. By simulating this it encourages growth, and health. These large water changes also help during quarantine periods, as any bacteria in the water (ie ich, or whitespot) is removed continuously, helping out with the overall health of the animal. If I could I would install a continuous water change system in the tanks, but since I can't I do large water change instead, it's always worked well before, and I've kept quite a few tanks...

I've had a look at axolotls.org, which is where I got the info for salt baths etc off, but it doesn't help with the not eating thing.

I don't know of any breeders or keepers in the Hunter Valley, I've sure advertised enough offering to adopt axies, or take larvae or eggs. No one in my area responded, which is why I bought two adults. If someone is around here, I'd be happy for them to have a look at him, or suggest some medications I can access to help him out...

avalon_princess
25th October 2007, 09:39
Pendragon died today, he'd been getting slower and slower and much weaker, he still wouldn't eat and even with salt baths, the fungus took over his gills and was beginning to cover his body. At least he isn't in pain anymore.

Just thought I'd let you know
Emma

kclinton
25th October 2007, 13:58
Sorry to hear hope you feel better soon.

digger
25th October 2007, 17:53
so sorry, i know its no consulation but you did the best you could for him.