High levels of ammonia

For the past 4 days of so my water has had an ammonia level that is off the chart (say >8ppm) I've been doing 20% water changes everyday, and yesterday I did a 90% water change because my axie was looking like she had sunburn (she's leucistic by the way) and her gills were bright red. I'm well aware that my tank was not cycled properly prior to getting my axie (because I had no prior knowledge about the nitrogen cycle) and since introducing my axie, I realised that I'm now cycling the tank the inhumane way. The tank has been cycling for about 2 weeks now with my axie in it and the ammonia levels do not seem to peak, instead they just keep on increasing. Also, my nitrite and nitrate levels are 0ppm- always. I have not fed her in 4 days now because I want to reduce the amount of waste that she secretes, despite her secreting waste from her gills anyway. How do I get this nitrogen cycle to break out? It's frustrating the hell out of me because I do not know how much more my axie can take...it's torture.

Jay.

Hmm it is weird your levels are so high. Have you been cleaning uneaten food and your axolotl's waste quickly? I also found that when I first started my tank (I too didn't realise I had to cycle it first so did it with my axolotl in there) I had a constant amount of ammonia which I traced to a dying plant in my tank. So if you have live plants perhaps change them for plastic ones.

Also do you have a filter? I have an internal filter that keeps waste down. If you don't have one that could explain why you have high levels of ammonia.

Not sure what your set up is but check everything, like if you have rocks there could be waste underneath that is causing ammonia.

Another thing you could check is your tap water (or whatever water you use for the water changes) to see if that has ammonia problems. Hopefully your PH is low as that will abate the effects of ammonia on your axolotl some what.

It sounds like the ammonia is causing some stress to your axolotl. Perhaps you could take her out and put her in like an icecream tub of clean dechlorinated water until your tank ammonia is settled? You can do daily full water changes then - have some dechlorinated water handy for the replacement.

But yeah the highest my ammonia got when I was cycling was .25ppm... so not sure what is going on with yours at 0.8ppm.

Anyway, I hope you are able to get it sorted for your pet

The waste could be because of your gravel/rock which I think from memory you decided to keep in rather than remove. Did you stop using the ammolock? One of my tanks reached 8ppm during cycling, when they did I removed the axies, put them in individual 20litre buckets, stopped the waterchanges on the tank, did 80-90% daily waterchanges on the axie buckets and let the tank do its thing!

Well, I have an internal filter and my pH is around 6.8 right now..I can't increase it regardless of how many times I change the water (the tapwater has a pH of about 8). I tested my ammonia again and I got a reading of 4ppm. I don't have any plants in my tank because I wouldn't know how to look after them. And Kapo you are most likely correct about the undergravel filter and the rocks. Back some months ago when I was cleaning out the tank and getting it started up, I attempted to remove the undergravel filter but was not successful. It was as if the stupid thing was superglued down, and I didn't want to force it just incase I cracked the glass. If anybody could give me some advice on how to remove the undergravel filter that would be great. I really want a bare ground for my axie and it would help reduce the ammonia level and kick-start my nitrogren cycle. I would remove my axie but it's just that the weather has been so erratic here in Melbourne, Australia. Like yesterday it was 30 something degrees and now it's 17 degrees- go figure. Also, would somebody be able to explain spot cleaning to me?

Jay.

Ok PH of 6.8 is fine so don't worry about trying to increase it. It is better for your axolotl that it is lower and stable as it means ammonia is a bit less poisonous (but still a concern).

If you are worried about temperature you can put your axolotl in the fridge in a container. I have a cooler so temperature is not usually a big worry but just before the heatwave this weekend the transformer I use to convert the US power broke! Grrrr. Anyway I had to put Maxolotl in the fridge for three days and basically all you have to do is make sure the fridge is >5C and you change the water each day or every two days (keep a bottle in the fridge of dechlorinated water so the temperature of the replacement water is the same). He seems fine and the only issue was that he didn't eat (which is normal at that temperature). They can stay in the fridge for a fair while (not sure exactly how long but I have heard people keeping them in the fridge for a month). Someone will correct me if I am wrong I am sure, but I suspect doing this will be less stressful than high ammonia levels.

If you remove your axolotl from the tank you won't need to do any more water changes in the tank and you can just let it cycle on its own. Still monitor it though so you can see when it is cycled. Cycled tanks should not have any ammonia present.

Sorry, I have no experience with undergravel filters so cannot help you with that question. Could you put sand over it if you can't get it off? I have no idea if that is a good idea or not though...

Yeah, I was thinking about placing my axie into the fridge. But I've never done it before so I'm a bit hesitant I am quite convinced now that it's the undergravel filter plates that are causing all the troubles with my ammonia level. And also because my fridge is a high traffic zone- I live in a house full of savage beasts I want to remove the undergravel filter plates as soon as possible before the next heat wave comes around again. I just don't understand why this nitrogen cycle is taking forever to start...
Kapo, I have stopped using both ammo-lock and cycle despite the pet store telling me otherwise.

Jay.

P.S. Maxolotl is a really funky name- cool play on words!

Haha yea, my 'pets' are named Mactus the Cactus and Mishy the Fishy... so that is why I figured I'd call him Maxolotl...

Anyway, yea if you put your axolotl in the fridge cover the container in a tea towel or something to block out the light... they don't miss the light being nocturnal creatures. And just tell people to shut the door gently and I think you will be alright. I had a thermometre on the outside to monitor the temperature without disturbing him but you can put one in the water to be more accurate. Don't be concerned if she throws up in the first day (especially if you have just fed her prior to putting her in the fridge) - sometimes they do that as it stops the food rotting in their stomach (the cold slows down digestion). Just watch for that in case you need to do a spot clean.

Also I forgot to mention spot cleaning - that is basically just cleaning away any uneaten food or axolotl poo as you see it in the tank. You can use a turkey baster (they are really cheap) and just suck it up - I find that to be the best method. I think you can use nets as well to pick up stuff off the ground. For big cleans I use a siphon hose, I wouldn't bother with that for spot cleans though as it is fiddly and a two-person job (ok perhaps that is just because I am clumsy and always spill it unless my partner holds the bucket!)

Do you know where I would be able to purchase one of these turkey basters? I haven't even heard of it before and the name is rather comical I just did another water change and I removed heaps of rocks because I figured it would just trap the gunk under the plates even more so. Does anybody know whether I can just remove all the gravel and let my axie reside in a tank that just has a undergravel filter plate instead of a bare floor?
Also, should I feed her now because I have not fed in 4 days? She is still very responsive to any kind of movement because she puts her head up in anticipation for a meal...very cute XD
Jay.

You can try supermarkets but I couldn't find any in Safeway (or Woolworths - not sure where in Aus you are I'm in Melb) or Coles , not sure where I got mine, and neither is my partner who bought it. Though he says he thinks it was 'House' or something like that. Basically one of those shops that sells kitchenware and stuff like that. Very handy for spot cleaning and they are really cheap too.

If you are about to put her into the fridge I wouldn't feed her as she will probably just regurgitate it, that seems to be what I have heard from friends and experienced with my own axolotl. Four days isn't a long time without food for an adult axolotl.. but I guess you can always give it a shot and make sure she is ok in the fridge.

The turkey Baister is also called a bulb syringe if that helps. As for the UG filter plate...... It can be done but detritus will accumulate under the plate and even without gravel it will be difficult to remove. My preference would be to just use a bare bottom. If the filter plate seems stuck to the bottom it is generally because the flow slots are clogged / blocked. Additionally, just trying to raise the plate will create a vaccuume at first. Pull up gently and maintain it till the plate pulls loose. If the fit is really tight then maybe the plate was too large for your tank etc.

Your ammonie is high but it will come down. There are a few things to keep in mind. Without gravel there will be exponentially less surface area for colonizing bacteria. As such the cycle time will be longer and the colony smaller and less able to quickly adapt to change. You mentioned an internal filter. What size is it and what type of media are you using?

If you put her/him in the fridge container needs to be changed 100% daily, as it's a much smaller area than s/he would have in the tank, therefore would foul faster. Our fridge is also a high traffic area (with 3 kids constantly in and out grabbing snacks, they've learned when the axies are in the fridge to close it quickly, gently and quietly rather than slam it with force! ), but ours have managed to survive. Another thing to do is wrap the container with a teatowel.

Attached is a picture of a turkey baster, they're used to suck up the juices and baste the turkey, hence the name. In NZ we tend to use a big spoon/ladle to baste our meat.

Cycling can take a long time and 2 weeks is really nothing! One owner spent 10.5 weeks cycling (another took longer and they both had substrate). My longest has taken 8.5 weeks (that's with sand and large 5 inch size rocks and other decos inside the tank).

Ok, I'll keep at the cycling with the undergravel filter plate because I tried to remove it yesterday and it was so lodged that it felt like I was going to crack the glass, then I would be up to my nose with trouble! As for the internal filter, I am using a brand called Cascade 400 (so it pumps 400 litres per hour). The internal filter is fitted with a carbon cartridge that is filled with zeolite, and the filter media is a sponge. My tank size is 2 feet.
With the fridge method, do I have to worry about the pH level? Because my tap water pH is around 8 and my tank water at the moment is 6.8- will such a drastic change stress out my axie? Also, when I decide to remove/put my axie from/in the fridge, do I have to worry about the dramatic change in temp?
I am going to go hunting for a turkey baster now!

Jay.

House has them at Karrinyup if you're anywhere near there, or another house store. I couldn't get one in supermarkets, Target etc. Not so commonly used in Aus I don't think! But it is wonderful.

I think as long as the PH doesn't change too much it should be ok. So if you take your axolotl from 6.8 to 8 and then keep her there for a while she should be ok. My situation is the same - tap water 8 and tank water 6.5-6.8 - and I didn't have any issues with Maxolotl's three days in the fridge.

As far as temperature goes, again I didn't have any issues but I am sure it is stressful to have a drop in temperature of that much. I left the fridge door open for a bit when I put my axolotl in so it wasn't freezing (I have a fairly empty fridge so perishable food wasn't an issue but I am sure this is not practical for most people) and then put the temperature controller on the warmest it could go and monitored it. It went from 11C to 5C over an hour or so, from a tank of 24C. The main problem was he threw up his food as I have mentioned before. Anyway, I am really not sure if this is the best way of fridging an axolotl as I have not had to put my axolotl in the fridge before but I felt it was unavoidable because of the heat wave. I figured he's less likely to die in the cold than the heat!

When I removed him I let the container heat up to just below room temperature then put the container in the tank like a boat until the water inside the container was the same as the tank water and them tipped him back into the tank.

Anyway mine has come through fine, he didn't eat for a day after I took him out of the fridge but is back eating and attacking me when I make any indication I might be about to feed him

I hope it all goes well for you too!

No it's not that drastic a temperature change as the temperature will then remain at a constant cool temperature; just avoid doing what some members have done, who worry a lot and take their axies out of the fridge within 12 hours as they think it's too cold to warm up, then pop them either back in the tank or fridge. This would be more stressful due to the fluctuation in temperatures.

I'm always fridging mine when need be. pH shouldn't be a problem as the water gets changed completely daily. If you didn't change your water daily the ammonia levels, and with that pH level, would build up in the small fridge container and become more toxic.

Throwing up (and pooing) is entirely normal, this stops any food that it may have recently consumed, in its stomach, from rotting.

Hi Jay,

If you want to remove your under gravel filter get a razor blade, the old school type and jam one side of the blade into a chopstick and slide it along the bottom of the tank it will cut the glue away from the glass. If it is superglue it will have bonded to, not with the glass tank. If its a plastic tank then this way probably won't work.

Good luck

Perhaps I'm just slow on the intake but I don't completely understand what you're getting at Ian . I do have a glass tank and I don't really know what you're saying with the whole jamming the razor blade into a chopstick?? :uhoh:. I did another water change today and the ammonia level is around 2-3ppm. It is finally going down! I know I still have a lot of work ahead of me but anything beats 8ppm! . Still curious about why the nitrite and nitrate levels haven't started to increase yet...I'm still at 0ppm for both . Also, should I feed my axie tomorrow? Today will be the 5th day that I haven't fed her...is that bad?
Oh and with spot cleaning (using the turkey baster), what is the method that most people use? Do they just swish around the tank with the turkey baster until they find poop/debris?

Jay.

P.S. I found the turkey baster Got weird looks for asking though XD

You just squeeze on the top of it and it will blow out a bunch of bubbles and then when you let go it will suck debris into it automatically. Then you just take the turkey baster out and empty it. So I basically just point it at any waste and do it that way. It is really only for spot cleans and you get frustrated pretty quick doing an entire tank like that

Yea I think my boyfriend said he got weird looks too when he got mine... I don't think they are very common here in Australia! I guess we don't eat a lot of turkeys...

Hi Jay you mentioned in an earlier thread that you had tried to remove your under gravel filter but it was as if it was superglued to the glass.
There are no innuendos, just a tried and true way of removing stuckfast objects from glass surfaces with out using chemicals.

The razor blades I am referring to are the very thin (10 microns I beleive) and about 1 " by 2"s with a cutting edge on two sides. If you jam one side of the blade into the end of a chopstick, you have a useful tool that you can possibly slide under your filter to break the seal and remove it.

Ian, do you mean slide the razor blade in between the filter plate and the glass at 180 degrees or 90 degrees (in relation to the chopstick)? If you mean the latter, this will not work because there isn't a large enough gap between the glass and the filter plate for me to get under the filter plate.
Thanks for the pointer Saspotato! Although I'm going to have to look extra hard because I have rocks in my tank that you very similar to my axie's poop (I feed her earthworms) XD

Jay.