Return of the Deadly Bacteria/Fungal Infection

Hey all - Disaster has struck the aquarium.

During November we lost 3 of the 4 adult axxies (inc. Ganesh). Now only Cheech remains. Will and I had gone on vacation for over a month and, whilst we were away, Ganesh laid more eggs, which were not manged by the caretaker - they decomposed in the tank. Axies were covered in cream-ish coloured large blothes and could no longer stabilise their swimming or stop bobbing at the surface. They died in a large container we used when changing their water.

Cheech had seemingly made a full recovery, but was still a bit blotchy.The 2 week anti-fungal treatment seemed to work well. We cleaned out the aquarium and placed him in it without any of the rocks, plants etc. Over a month he recovered, but it was empty and that seeemed to stress him a bit. So Saturday arvo we cleaned off the rocks and replaced everything including the plants. He became visibly distressed within hours. Cheech returned to this desperate swimming style where he looks to be trying to escape out of the tank. By the next day he was blotchy and bobbing. We moved him to a container on Sunday (different to the death-container) and this morning (Monday) he was relaxing at the bottom.

What do you think is making him sick in the aquarium?
What type of fungus/bacteria is attacking him and how does it operate?
What can we do to toally erradicate this killer?

As there is such a fast reaction to the new tank, I do not think that it is something bacterial or even organic - these things normally have to develop and cope with the immune system.
I would think that it is something chemical.
Do you know your water parameters, especially ammonia, nitrite and pH from both tanks?

I agree. The rapid onset and voilent reaction points to exposure to some irritant / toxin. When his tank was cleaned out was any cleaning agent used? Even a small trace amount of things like bleach can be very uncomfortable to amphibians and others. I would re-clean the tank. Fill and drain it completely several times over and be sure to use clean containers. If you are filling directly from a tap, use a clean wet cloth to wet-wipe the tap several times to remove anything that might be on there. In times like this I also fint it beneficial to run a canister filter with carbon to remove any traces that might linger. You can run the carbon for 24-36 hours before returning your Axie. By then the water should be pretty good.

we had that problem with ours.... exactly the same.... ours was pH. we had to increase the pH before putting the refill water into the tank. The babies would storm up to the surface gulping for air, and swim around with their mouths open at the surface for ages.. the whiteys went red n purple and it was getting scary.. we tested our tap water and the pH ws low.. so now whenever i do a water change i put a teaspoon of bicarb soda into the bucket and that raises the level just perfect and now the babies dont bat an eyelid..

Thanks for that guys From you description of the distressed babies it certainly sounds like you've dealt with the same, if not highly similar, behaviour. And it IS scary

For starters we will pick up a new Ph kit - the existing one is old and cruddy. It's good to start eliminating possibilities.

Something puzzles me though ... if it were the water alone, why wouldn't Cheech have the same reaction in the container as in the aquarium? This makes me think, sure, it could be a chemical in the aquarium. The thing is that we don't use any cleaning products (bleach etc) when cleaning the tank.

Ganesh, you may very well rush out and pick up a pH kit. But did you bother testing your water parameters for those that phoenixtear suggested. Ammonia, nitrites, nitrates as well as pH. If you have any ammonia in the tank and you have a high pH level (ie 8.0+) then any ammonia in your tank becomes more toxic. Any time you have a water problem that you're unsure of ammonia, nitrite and nitrates need to be tested asap to eliminate them from the equation.

Do you age the water or use a water conditioner/ager/dechlorinator added to your tapwater for waterchanges etc...?


Dancas - low pH would not have caused the problem. How low was your pH? From what i remember of earlier threads you posted it ranged between 6.4-6.6 which wasn't too bad. You shouldn't try for a perfect pH. Axolotls can reside in pH levels of 6.4-8.0 quite easily. Their gasping and gulping can be related to either ammonia or nitrite poisoning if you don't do the frequent partial waterchanges, which as I remember your ammonia was at 3.0 at the time they were gasping and may very well have still been cycling, combined with heat (warm water in a tank also means less oxygen). The pH is only a problem, as I mentioned above, if it's at the higher end of the range (8.0) and there is any ammonia present, rather than lower end of the scale. A much better way to raise pH is to place shell grit (in a stocking) in the tank - this stops the fluctuations you would get from constantly trying to get a "perfect" pH level.

We placed Cheech back in the main aquarium last night after he looked much improved and this morning he's bobbing at the surface. So we put him back in the container. Ammonia and nitrates as well ... do you think that the decomposed eggs might have put out some toxin into the water?

To answer your Q, yes we used aged water only. It's from the rain water tank. This is the same water being used in the aquarium and in the container.

To clarify ...

Is there a treatment available to address the cream-ish splotching on his skin? Cheech is a black man with sparse white spotting. The splotching does not appear to be a change in skin colour. It covers most of his tail and lower torso, then sections of upper body.

Sorry Ganesh, bit confused by your post above. Were your ammonia or nitrites readings above 0? And what has your tank temperature been at?

Anything left decomposing in the tankwater, ie eggs, would cause a rise in ammonia. You should really remove anything (food/waste/decomposing eggs/anything fungus looking) from the tank/containers as soon as possible.

The splotching could be due to water quality, hard to really say as you haven't given clear water parameter readings nor posted a photo.

Either way the best treatment (rather than adding medicines) especially if it's water quality based problem (ie nitrite/ammonia levels over 0) is you need to do a 20-30% waterchange (after you test your tankwater).

You may need to test your water daily or every two days and change the water if ammonia/nitrites are showing (no more than 20=30% though; don't do large waterchanges).

My bore water low pH... = gulping... raise pH = no gulping everything in our tank is now cycling, axies eating, laying eggs very happy....everything in our tank was controllable the pH was the only changing factor,we fixed that and the babies went to normal our pH is at about 7.6 constant now. doing 15% water changes everyday after feeding.
ammonia is only at very low trace, sitting on 0.. nitrite 0 nitrate bout 25ish temp 18

our ammonia was high for quite a while and we never had the gulping problem, was adding low pH water that caused our prob. ( may be different for differnt axies but ours reacted more to that than anyhting else we have thrown at them...) (not literally)

Sorry, I have an off-topic question: what is "bore water"? I've seen this term used several times, and I would like to understand.

From an article I found "Bore water is ground water which accumulates in aquifers from seepage of rain and rivers through layers of soil and rock." You basically put in a bore to access that water. Often used in rural parts of Australia - not sure if it is common overseas or not.

Usually it is not safe enough to drink - I accidentally drunk some once and was sick for about a week

More info if you need: http://www.health.sa.gov.au/pehs/PDF-files/bore-water-web-06.pdf

Sorry for the delay in my reply, have had a super busy weekend!!

Tested the aquarium on Friday for nitrates (N2/N3), ammonia, total hardness, and Ph levels. Ph registered 6.8 - I reckon that's acceptably close to neutral 7. Haven’t been monitoring temperature, although there is a gauge in there. Everything indexed within the safe range for a freshwater tank :bowl:, except for hardness which was not dangerously “hard”, but above base readings.

We returned Cheech to the aquarium Saturday morning and he appears to be settling in well, with the exception of not eating. It’s been about 5 days since his last meal, so we are persevering and not freaking out just yet. :wacko:

Not sure if the waters indices normalised due to the aquarium sitting without any critters in it for a week. It is really clean, as everything was taken out and rinsed the weekend prior. There is no left over foodstuffs etc in the tank.

We live in a water catchment area so our bore water is more safe to drink than most peoples scheme water.... think spring water in bottles... we have had our water checked and we have low levels of magnesium and calcium but thats all.. lower than most bottled water... we live on top of an underground river and have drilled a hole 250m down to get to it.. ( we do not have water on tap... we live on rainwater or water we collect from underground)

Cheech's health has not returned to normal

Hey guys ...

Cheech's health has not returned to normal. He will seem stronger (eat, swim, not float) for a week or 2, but then he returns to floating without energy. His skin continues to be covered in white blotches, which is worsening. Blotches started on his tail and has spread to his torso, legs, and head. Please take a look at the photos taken last night.

We have taken the suggested precautions with water quality. However, the current reading is confusing:

Nitrate (NO+3) 40ppm = safe
Nitrate (NO-2) 0 ppm = safe
Total Hardness 75ppm = soft
Total alkalinity (KH) 40 ppm (low range)
pH - freshwater 7.8 (Alkaline)

How can the total alkalinity be low when the pH is alkaline, not acidic (or neutral)?

How do we fix this seeming contradiction? Alkaline Buffer raises pH and inceases alkalinity (KH), Acid buffer does the opposite. The Seachem products we have are non-phosphate.

...or should we be treating this health issue with the antifungal / antibacterial treatment combo?

The white splotches look like normal coloration to me.

Your water readings seem to be fine (although you have no reading for ammonia, which is also important). Alkalinity is a measurement of the buffering capacity of the water. Both your hardness and alkalinity are low, and this is no surprise, these are usually correlated. The more hardness, the harder it is to change the pH, i.e., the higher the alkalinity. Even with a low alkalinity, your pH can be anywhere from acid to alkaline, but it may tend to change more than it would if you had higher alkalinity. I would not recommend messing around with the pH, it's fine.

So the main problems are floating and poor appetite? What is the temperature?

I agree with Jennewt concering the white spots - it looks like normal white skin (although the photo could use some sharpness).

What I don't like is the gravel in your tank - this might be a problem if your Axolotl ever swallows some of it. I would advice you to completely remove it so you will also have a better view if there are any feces (even if it's not eating it might have some food left in its guts).

Hi Ganesh,

I am wondering if there was something that your caretaker may have done while you were away. I'm not trying to point the finger or lay blame but maybe there was something done or added which has prompted this issue.

The colouration looks ok to me as well.

I think you are doing the right things. Obviously something catastrophic has happened in your tank and you are investigating what.

In the meantime I would not put your remaining axie anywhere near the tank. I suggest you go back to square 1 and setup your tank from scratch, boil everything that can be boiled and toss the rest.

It is really bizzare to have a healthy cycled tank go completely haywire so quickly.

Good Luck