Help! *Very* sick Axie, no help from vets...

Hi all!

I hope someone can help me.

I looked after my mother's Axolotl over the Christmas holidays, and I noticed some odd white spots on him. He has always had a little bit of white freckling on a dark body, but now he has lots and lots of white patches. He refused to eat the entire time that I was looking after him - which might have had something to do with the very hot summer, but is quite abnormal for him.

He looked like he had been suffering from heat stress over the hot holidays. He had some of the translucent patches of mucus on his skin (in addition to the white patches), like the pictures on http://www.axolotl.org/requirements.htm . I cooled his tank down with ice bottles, as recommended, but the patches are still there. I did 20% water changes every week, with rain water, not tap water (as it is chlorinated here). The pH of the water is just over 7.

My mother has been back for two weeks now, and he still isn't eating. The white patches on his skin are covering more of his body now. She took him to a vet here (in South Australia), and they had *no* idea what to do with an Axolotl. I got more information off the Caudata site than they were able to tell us!

I am attaching a couple of pics of him here.







I'm sorry they aren't very clear, but I hope they give you some idea. The first is in his tank, the other two are while he was in his salt bath.

It looks (to me) like he might have the Columnaris bacteria - but as I have never seen it before, I'm not sure. Can anyone tell me if it is?

Since I thought it was Columnaris, I put him in a salt bath for 10 minutes, two days in a row. On the second day, he went nuts in the salt bath, and kept trying to jump out. When I put him back in his tank, he swam around like a mad thing, and tried to jump out the sides. He is an incredibly inactive Axie, so this was a bit of a shock to me. He then spent the next half an hour or so standing on top of the filter with his head poking out of the water, gulping every 20 seconds or so. I was really worried by this behaviour, and I thought maybe it had hurt his gills somehow, so I did not repeat the salt bath.

Should I? Do Axies normally respond to salt baths like this?

Any advice you can give me would be fantastic. He hasn't eaten anything other than a couple of bloodworms since mid-December, and we're very worried about him.

Bee

Hi Bee = Welcome to the forum.

You should fridge him = this will help destress him, will slow his metabolism down and should help especially if you're having summer temperature issues (which won't be helping him at all - this will be adding to his stress).

It may very well be heat stress. When an axie is stressed their immune system lowers and they develop fungus.

Axies will respond to saltbaths initially like this as they aren't used to them but they do eventually settle in.

What quantity of salt did you use, per litre of water? Did you dissolve it first and was the water about the same temperature as the tankwater or room temperature?

One of ours still has a few settling in issues whenever we restart saltbaths (she gets fungus very easily as she has a lower immune system than our other axies - spends 1/4 of the year usually being treated for fungus round summertime = but settles in after a week or so).

When you give her the bath = make sure to cover the container; this will help him settle in. Saltbaths need to be done twice a day - three times on the weekends, and has to be continued until at least a week after all fungus drops of. Each saltbath needs to be emptied after each use, to get rid of any fungus that may come of in the bath.

What has your tank temperature been at? If it's been quite high, the mid 20s or higher, then that could be part of the problem.

As for water testing - you also need to test for ammonia, nitrites and nitrates more so then pH. If there is any ammonia or nitrIte levels over 0, then you need to do more frequent partial waterchanges (20% daily or every 2nd day dependant on watertests) rather than weekly.

The gravel may also cause a problem, ie water quality as well as gravel ingestion which can at worst lead to impaction/blockage and subsequent prolapse.

With the gravel - gunk builds up both beneath the gravel (and if you have an Undergravel filter - falls beneath the filter plate) which can cause an eventual water quality problem (high ammonia/nitrites) and so stress your axie.


If you have problems trying to maintain a cool tank temperature then you should look at leaving him in the fridge as long as you possibly can. Returning him to a tank that is going through summer heats with constant temperature fluctuations is stressful (hence fungus develops).

For fridging and saltbathing method:

* Fridge needs to be 5C or above - test by placing a glass of water and thermometer in the fridge; check after 20mins. If okay then fridge your axolotl.

* If you have the room - use two lidded containers filled with either dechlorinated water (tapwater with added water ager drops to remove chlorine and chloramine) or rainwater.

* Place your axolotl in the first one, place a lid on the container, wrap with a dishcloth - the lid is so the axie doesn't take fright in the fridge and jump out (has been known to happen). The dishcloth will stop temperature fluctuations and light flashing from normal fridge usage.

* Place the axie in the container in the fridge.

* Fill a few bottles with dechlorinated water or rainwater. Place in the fridge. This is to be used for the complete daily waterchanges that you will need to do on the fridge container and may also be used for the saltbathing.

* With the 2nd container - mark it with a marker on the side SALTBATH. Mix the salt quantity into the water and dissolve (ie 2-3 teaspoons of salt per litre of water). Place lid on and place into the fridge. If you don't have the room for the spare container/salt bath, then just make sure to place enough water in the fridge in bottles for both daily waterchanging and saltbathing. The water has to be the same temperature as the fridge container so there is no temperature fluctuations.

* When you go to saltbath first time - remove the axie from the fridge container and put him in the saltbath. Put both containers back in the fridge so the containers don't warm up. Once finished remove axie from saltbath and return to original fridge container, replace lid, wrap with towel and return to fridge.
* Empty saltbath and make up a fresh batch - return to fridge.
* On the 2nd bath, usually evening, once you've transferred the axie to saltbath and placed it back in the fridge. Do a complete waterchange and lean out the original container using baking soda and water. Fill with chilled water that you have in the fridge. When saltbath is finished return axie to fridge container etc....

Thank you for all the info Kapo!

The temperature in the tank has been below 20 degrees since about Jan 8th - that was when I realised how warm it had been, and made moves to cool it down. Since he hasn't started eating yet, I assumed there was more wrong than just the temperature.

I will get my mum to check the ammonia, nitrate and nitrite levels (I'm not sure our current test kit is that smart, I may need to go get a new one).

I had read about the Axies ingesting the floor stones - and although he's never shown even the slightest interest in them, I certainly noticed how much rubbish they stored up when I was cleaning his tank out. (ick) I'll recommend to my mum that we get rid of the stones.

I used the salt bath solution recommended on the Health page - 2-3 teaspoons of salt per litre. I dissolved it in the container with the water, and let it sit for about 15-20 mins to get to the same temperature as his tank (as our rainwater tends to come out a little cold) before I moved him into it. He *really* did not like the second bath... but seemed to dislike being back in his tank even more. The last thing I want to do is stress him out so badly with the salt baths that he gets sicker.

I noticed that you say the fungus will "drop off" - I'm not sure if you can see from the pictures, but there doesn't actually appear to be anything to drop off? The white patches on him are so close to the skin that they look like markings if you don't look closely - there is nothing raised about them. Is that normal for Columnaris?

I'll give all the salt bath/fridging information to my mum - and hopefully he starts to feel better soon!

Whiet spot

It could be white spot like my axie contracted from my local Pet Stock.

If so salt bathes would prbably help

hope this could help

BumbleBee, axies don't get white spot. Are you sure it's not colouration or fungus?

Soz if this sounds rude but, Arrgh yea the do.

my last axie dies from it and the vet said so as she had a friend who had the same problem.

it looked heaps like that axie.

Perhaps it was fungus bumblebee? Someone correct me if I am wrong but I thought ich was a disease that only affected fish. Or perhaps you don't mean ich when you say white spot? I can't find a reference anywhere on the net that says that anything other than fish can get this disease. If you have a link or info that would be great.

White Spot

this is the only link i can find, and i go by wat the vet says as i never got another answer.

http://aqualandpetsplus.com/Amphibian, Axolotl.htm
it shows on a little yellow and pink gilled axie that looked just like my little nymph. he died very quickly after i got him although he didn'y look as bad as the axie picutred in this thread.

if u do know something, message me or send me an email at sthompson1995@hotmail.com

Thanx,

BB

It doesn't say "whitespot", it says ' When you see those white spots appear...". Those white spots can easily be fungus, bacteria, or parasitic. It doesn't specify.

I've never heard of axolotls getting Ich, but I don't see why it COULDN'T happen. However, I can't find any information in the literature (after a super-quick search) about axolotls getting Ich. Ich has a pretty specific life cycle, and unless you have infected fish in your house, or in with your axolotl, I don't think you could transfer ich to your axolotl.

As a vet nurse I can tell you now most vets don't have much knowledge on exotic species. I would be seeking advice from someone who is specialised in this area. I know there a couple here in Brisbane and the Gold Coast and I'm sure there are plenty around... Don't know where you are Bumblebee or Bee but if you can find one I'm betting they could clarify whether an axie can get it or not...

Hi Bee,

Whatever it is, it is not a good look. I would follow Jodis advice and find a vet that knows about axies.

Good Luck