salted & fridged...

ok so recently one of my axolotls have gotten sick...

her name is Gertrude btw... xD

and my healthy one is Homer... (both are girls )

BUT ANYWAY

as some people have advised me off this site, i gave Gert a salt bath, but im not sure if i used enough salt or the right salt... You guys said to use 2 tsp per litre... the tub i put her in was 3 litres... so if my maths is correct thats 6 tsp, which to me seems an awful lot, so i only put in 4... should i put in the full 6 next time?
and also, still on the topic of the salt bath, i used iodised salt, somebody on here said to use un iodised... does it matter? i have sea salt crystals?... wats better to use?

OK and so i was also informed to do a 100% water change, because i had bought medication for my axie who was sick, and put it in the whole tank, and so i have separated both axies from the tank. I put my non sick one in the fridge, because the water is still really murky, and i dont want to treat the water before it has settled. is this ok to leave my healthy one in the fridge overnight?

AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST, i noticed when checking on Gertrude in the fridge, that she was upside down... is this just confusion because its the dark or is was it just pure coinsidence that i looked at that time... i checked again after about 3 hours... and she was fine.

hopefully someone is online so they can let me no about wether its safe or not for my healthy axie to be in the fridge...

thanks again... this site rocks... its rlly helpful and reassuring... ive already learnt soo much info..

Thanks Robbie

it will be fine in the fridge . Some people who have water temperature issues keep them in the fridge for a month or so and they are fine.

Robbie,

Are you referring to a 100% water change to the tubs in the fridge or your tank?

Jay.

Kal El said:

Robbie,

Are you referring to a 100% water change to the tubs in the fridge or your tank?

Jay.

Click to expand...

i was refering to the tank...

because i put in the medicine in the whole tank to cure gertrudes fungus in her gills i was advised to take out the entirety of the water and then put fresh water in...

but i am also aware that i need to do 100% water changes of the fridge container as well daily

Robbie,

Does this mean that you have gone through with the 100% water change for the tank already? Because if you haven't, that's good. I would not reccommend this step because:

1. It is highly unorthodox, especially if all your parameters are normal (in particular ammonia)

2. What ever beneficial bacteria that still resides in your tank is salvageable; this way you don't have 're-cycle' again.

My advice is to purchase a carbon cartridge that contains activated carbon and place it into the tank- this will remove the medication from the tank. An alternative method is to buy the activated carbon and place it into women's stocking and then immerse this into the tank.

Just a word of caution, you should give the activated carbon a thorough rinse first or it will 'cloud' up your tank.

NB. zeolite can also be used in place of activated carbon

Jay.

Kal El said:

Robbie,

Does this mean that you have gone through with the 100% water change for the tank already? Because if you haven't, that's good. I would not reccommend this step because:

1. It is highly unorthodox, especially if all your parameters are normal (in particular ammonia)

2. What ever beneficial bacteria that still resides in your tank is salvageable; this way you don't have 're-cycle' again.

My advice is to purchase a carbon cartridge that contains activated carbon and place it into the tank- this will remove the medication from the tank. An alternative method is to buy the activated carbon and place it into women's stocking and then immerse this into the tank.

Just a word of caution, you should give the activated carbon a thorough rinse first or it will 'cloud' up your tank.

NB. zeolite can also be used in place of activated carbon

Jay.

Click to expand...

bummer... if only i posted this a couple of hours ago...

ive redone my tank...

so i guess im gonna have to re-cycle it...

can u tell me how id go about that?...

The medicine in your tank is most likely to have killed the bacteria. I have used medicine on a number of fish I have kept (never an axie though) and it has always caused my tank to recycle. Usually medicine is designed to kill bacteria and the like I think doing a 100% water change is fine in this case as it will make sure all the medicine is gone and you would have had to recycle the tank anyway.

I have tried the carbon cartridge once before many years ago and found it wasn't great, but perhaps I got a dodgy one *shrugs* How have you used it before Jay? Just curious to know how it works and how quickly it will rid the tank of medicine (and does it work for all types of medicine)?

I sent you that article before on cycling Robbie, follow that and your tank will cycle fine. Was your tank cycled before anyway? I am not sure as you said you only had used Cycle and that is not effective for cycling a tank.

Robbie,

It's ok matey. I'm sure you're not the first to do this.

I do believe Sarah gave you an article on 'cycling'. If you follow this you'll be ok.

However, if you want to get really technical about 'cycling', here is a post that I put up recently:

http://www.caudata.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53666

There's more to 'cycling', if you're interested

Jay.

Saspotato said:

The medicine in your tank is most likely to have killed the bacteria. I have used medicine on a number of fish I have kept (never an axie though) and it has always caused my tank to recycle. Usually medicine is designed to kill bacteria and the like I think doing a 100% water change is fine in this case as it will make sure all the medicine is gone and you would have had to recycle the tank anyway.

I have tried the carbon cartridge once before many years ago and found it wasn't great, but perhaps I got a dodgy one *shrugs* How have you used it before Jay? Just curious to know how it works and how quickly it will rid the tank of medicine (and does it work for all types of medicine)?

I sent you that article before on cycling Robbie, follow that and your tank will cycle fine. Was your tank cycled before anyway? I am not sure as you said you only had used Cycle and that is not effective for cycling a tank.

Click to expand...

well see when i got my axies... they only said i needed to test amonia, hardness, and ph...

so ive never tested nitrite or nitrate...

and my amonia was fine...

so im in a bit of a pickle...

Robbie don't worry. What you are doing now is fine. Your tank will recycle and many people cycle their tanks with their axolotls in there (though admittedly, it is more ideal if you cycle first). How did you cycle it before? Like when did you get your axolotls and had you had the tank set up before hand? If your ammonia was 0 then it is likely you cycled it fine the first time so there is nothing stopping you from doing it again.

Basically that is why it is recommended never to treat your tank with medicine as it will kill all the beneficial bacteria. But what is done can't be undone so don't worry

Anyway, just keep your sick axolotl in the fridge and keep up the salt baths for the fungus. Monitor your other tank and test for ammonia (that is the most important one), nitrate and nitrite. Hardness is not really important to test for, I never have, but if you have the test kit it won't do any harm

Saspotato said:

Robbie don't worry. What you are doing now is fine. Your tank will recycle and many people cycle their tanks with their axolotls in there (though admittedly, it is more ideal if you cycle first). How did you cycle it before? Like when did you get your axolotls and had you had the tank set up before hand? If your ammonia was 0 then it is likely you cycled it fine the first time so there is nothing stopping you from doing it again.

Basically that is why it is recommended never to treat your tank with medicine as it will kill all the beneficial bacteria. But what is done can't be undone so don't worry

Anyway, just keep your sick axolotl in the fridge and keep up the salt baths for the fungus. Monitor your other tank and test for ammonia (that is the most important one), nitrate and nitrite. Hardness is not really important to test for, I never have, but if you have the test kit it won't do any harm

Click to expand...

thanks heaps... but like i said... i dont have the nitrate n nitrite...

these aquarium ppl annoy me... they like pushed and pushed for me to get these 3 testers... hardness being one of the most important...

but i guess... if nitrite and nitrate ARE RLLY MEGA IMPORTANT, then i will invest in it ASAP.

if i just test amonia from now on, should that be ok?

btw sarah, ive got both my axies in the fridge atm... only because i was half way through cleaning out my tank and then i had to go to work, so i will finish it off in the morning...

Well I think you have the most important test, which is ammonia. So getting the other two tests kits is not urgent but I would still recommend it next time you are at the shop. If you get one of the test tube kits they should last a long time. I usually test ammonia once a week and PH, nitrate and nitrite once a fortnight but other people may test more frequently.

Aquarium people are often not great for advice unfortunately, as you have discovered. However, people here should be able to answer your questions properly so just ask away and someone can fill you in on how to look after axies. If you haven't already, this is a good link to look at axolotl.org.

Saspotato said:

Well I think you have the most important test, which is ammonia. So getting the other two tests kits is not urgent but I would still recommend it next time you are at the shop. If you get one of the test tube kits they should last a long time. I usually test ammonia once a week and PH, nitrate and nitrite once a fortnight but other people may test more frequently.

Aquarium people are often not great for advice unfortunately, as you have discovered. However, people here should be able to answer your questions properly so just ask away and someone can fill you in on how to look after axies. If you haven't already, this is a good link to look at axolotl.org.

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sarah. seriously, youve been such a great help, i honeslty am soo greatful! im so glad i found this site

such a relief...

ok so ill put all the chemicals n stuff in my water now... and homer can go bak in tomorrow... and gertrude looks like shes gonna have a vacation in the fridge, with daily salt baths haha

im finding this stuff so interesting... ive learnt so much, and ive been able to help some other ppl too... except i made a boo boo on the temperature thing, which you corrected me on so i thank you on that

LOVE THIS SITE :lol:

also no one answered my question about the amount of salt i was using...

you guys have said 2 tsp per L, i had my axie in 3 L of water, so thats 6 tsp, is that too much...

and also i used iodized salt... is that ok?

if not should i use sea salt crystals?

Hi Robbie,

Use the sea salt crystals, just make sure they're dissolved in the water thoroughly before putting her in it. I advised uniodised salt as iodine is a substance that can, with repeated exposure, trigger metamorphosis. So sea salt or uniodised table salt is fine, and the salt bath you've already done won't be a problem as it's not been ongoing.

Sarah has cleared everything else up beautifully and explained it really well too.

Good luck again, be patient with the cycling.

Lisa said:

Hi Robbie,

Use the sea salt crystals, just make sure they're dissolved in the water thoroughly before putting her in it. I advised uniodised salt as iodine is a substance that can, with repeated exposure, trigger metamorphosis. So sea salt or uniodised table salt is fine, and the salt bath you've already done won't be a problem as it's not been ongoing.

Sarah has cleared everything else up beautifully and explained it really well too.

Good luck again, be patient with the cycling.

Click to expand...

oh ok, ive only done two salt baths, so ill make sure to use the crystals next time, shes already looking 10 times better, the fungus is coming off so quickly =]

i cant wait to get her back into her tank again and hopefully get her to start eating, thanks for your help:happy:

Saspotato said:

The medicine in your tank is most likely to have killed the bacteria. I have used medicine on a number of fish I have kept (never an axie though) and it has always caused my tank to recycle. Usually medicine is designed to kill bacteria and the like I think doing a 100% water change is fine in this case as it will make sure all the medicine is gone and you would have had to recycle the tank anyway.

I have tried the carbon cartridge once before many years ago and found it wasn't great, but perhaps I got a dodgy one *shrugs* How have you used it before Jay? Just curious to know how it works and how quickly it will rid the tank of medicine (and does it work for all types of medicine)?

I sent you that article before on cycling Robbie, follow that and your tank will cycle fine. Was your tank cycled before anyway? I am not sure as you said you only had used Cycle and that is not effective for cycling a tank.

Click to expand...

Sarah,

I will try and answer your question to the best of my ability. But just to clear things up, I do use a carbon cartridge, and I have always had this in my tank. So that's one question down

Moving onto activated carbon/zeolite...

Activated carbon/zeolite (both have similar functions, but that's another story) are forms of chemical filtration. The mechanism behind chemical filtration is adsorption; this must not be confused absorption. Adsorption is when dissolved substances, whether it be molecules/dissociated ions, are adsorbed (bind) onto a surface filter; in this case, activated carbon/zeolite. When the dissolved substances come into contact with the carbon, the chemical bonds between the carbon and the substance can range from weak-strong interactions (i.e. van der Waals, ionic bonding, coordinate bonding, covalent bonding. In order of increasing 'binding strength').

Now that the mechanism of carbon has been explained, the subsequent question is: What substances are adsorbed onto the carbon?

- Organic polutants. For example, phenols, thiols (which bring about that stagnant smell because of the sulphur molecules), humic polyphenols (this causes brownish/yellow discolouration of water) and the list continues.
- Dyes and perfumes
- Medications (all types because the medications on the market are composed of mostly organic molecules)
- Benzene;
- And other volatile chemicals
- Heavy metals (this is one the greatest advantages to using carbon. Heavy metals can chemically bind to the sulfhydryl groups in many enzymes, thus denaturing (distorting) the structure of an enzyme, and consequently the metabolic activity of cells.)
This is why it always good to check the active constituents of any chemical you purchase. Should it contain heavy metals such as Hg (mercury), Tl (thallium), Pb (lead), it is best to avoid the product.

Sarah, I do not have an explaination as to why your tank 're-cycled'. Perhaps it was because the medication had killed off all your bacteria or because you did in fact have a spent medium. When I say spent medium, I mean that the net equilibrium was zero, i.e. there was the same amount of molecules adsorbing and desorbing from the carbon, thus rendering it useless.

I hope all of that helped in some way :happy:

Jay.

Thanks Jay!